Violent Assault leaves my Retro bike DEAD... what next ?

[crud]

Anyway, the missus and me went to town today, decided to go on the bikes to save the hassle of parking etc.

So there I was outside a girlie shop on the edge of the road between two parking spaces, straddling my bike and holding the missus' bike while she browsed the shop when all of a sudden a pedestrian comes along and hits my bike with his shopping bag and calmly walks off without a care in the world, that's it I thought, how dare he damage my property and walk off, I saw red, dropped the missus' bike and stormed after this rouge :twisted:
He was changing direction this way and that trying to get away from me, how dare he nock my bike so carelessly, he was blabbering something in a slithering way, I didn't care this fool had it coming, so I grabbed his shopping bag and snapped it in half, let that be a lesson to you!

Sound ridiculous? That's because it is, but what's the difference with the OP :?:

10 pages and no photo of the GT!!!

 

[GoldenEraMTB]

Anyway, the missus and me went to town today, decided to go on the bikes to save the hassle of parking etc.

So there I was outside a girlie shop on the edge of the road between two parking spaces, straddling my bike and holding the missus' bike while she browsed the shop when all of a sudden a pedestrian comes along and hits my bike with his shopping bag and calmly walks off without a care in the world, that's it I thought, how dare he damage my property and walk off, I saw red, dropped the missus' bike and stormed after this rouge :twisted:
He was changing direction this way and that trying to get away from me, how dare he nock my bike so carelessly, he was blabbering something in a slithering way, I didn't care this fool had it coming, so I grabbed his shopping bag and snapped it in half, let that be a lesson to you!

Sound ridiculous? That's because it is, but what's the difference with the OP :?:

10 pages and no photo of the GT!!!

I think I asked back on page 2 or 3 for a pic of the mangled GT

 

[Tallpaul]

I wonder if the OP is even watching this thread anymore?

I'm also appalled by some of the spelling

 

[GoldenEraMTB]

I wonder if the OP is even watching this thread anymore?

I'm also appalled by some of the spelling

my spelling could be better

 

[sastusbulbas]

Blah blah blah,

Quite. (Clearly)

He ran away he evaded her, she got angry, FACTS.

So it would appear. (Sadly)

Anger - I have no problem with - driving your car on a public road as if to chase, or perhaps even worse - unacceptable. (I agree)

Resorting to violence because you're angry about something - unacceptable. (Though it would seem OK to agrivate a woman to the point of assault and assault her back?)

The witnesses were passers by at the scene where her boyfriend assaulted him, you have ony gesswork and hearsay on what they may have saw or thought was going on.

Indeed - so my take is just as valid as yours, sunshine - and don't you forget it. (I did take note of that fact, hence my initial post, and point of there being two sides and two wrongs not making a right)

Did we get varification on three independent sources giving independent and isolated reports of teh registrationm, or a couple of passers by agreeing that the registration was like that?

No - we didn't - so your conclusion is no more credible than mine. (The above clearly infers no conclusion by me, it is a question, I have no idea wether the car was stolen or the witnesses reliable? You concluded Adi's statement as fact it would seem?)

The end results are because he was above them, he can ride in any manner he wants and if someone does not agree he can stick his fingers up and run away.

Absolute rubbish. (No it is not, this is only an opinion, but many here seem to think they can ride in any manner they wish through traffic without recourse, some seem to find it wrong that a car driver was unhappy with their mirror being hit? Many seem to see nothing wrong with hitting cars and running on thier way such as Adi did.)

The end results are because there are some in society who appear to have no control of their behaviour and resort to violence. And even worse, numpties who empathise or even defend them. (Seems a little Hypocritic, a cyclist was in a rush and had no time to wait, which resulted in a car driver getting worked up about a mirror? I barging your way between cars not aggressive, after all he was going too fast to judge the distance and stop before hitting the mirror, and I do not consider pushing a woman who has been harassed as self defence, it was resorting to violence. What about control, YOU think I am a numptie for thinking that both parties acted inappropropriately, you are defending his actions I am not defending theirs.)

Get it? If you think it is OK to hit cars by cycling irresposibly, and then evade them when they try and give you an earful, fine.

If you think that it's acceptable, understandable to resort to violence, there, then I'm very sorry for you. I hope your attitude doesn't pervade as to influence others. (I clearly do not find the violence acceptable, and please do not feel sorry for me, I am not the one glorifying cycling between cars and hitting mirrors and running away as acceptable, my intention is not to pervade or influence anyone to act violently, but I am aware such can happen, I certainly do not wish to influence anyone to behave inappropriately on a road regardless of the mode of transport.)

It did not quickly and easilly turn to lawless violence, a cyclst hit a car and ran away and on numerous occasion aggrivated the situation, we have no idea what would have happened if you did not run away as if guilty of more than he states.

"not quickly and easily"? You're delusional. (Why LOL The incident was NOT mearly him hitting the mirror and someone getting out and hitting him, Adi clearly states the actions of evasion and chase, the confrontations and different locations? He elevated her anger with each evasion, he had items and abuse hurled at him, he pushed back when pushed, and confronted and interacted with her boyfriend, this guy also had a push and shove match with Adi, what Adi does not elaborate on is all the shouting and swearing that was going back and forth which was no doubt enflaming the already volatile situation his arogant cycling had caused. Hardly quickly and easily, and certainly provocation from each party)

I do not believe the reported him pushing her, they probably just caught the bits in his favour. Who wants to report hitting a woman though?

Neither you know, nor I. (Very true, and why I do not agree with either parties actions)

Personally, it's not something I would do, but in fairness, I wasn't subject to somebody chasing after me in a car, trying to run me down, then aggressively confronting me, and finally assaulting me. At the end of the day, whether we moralise over his physical response to her, or not - he was acting in self-defence. THEY WEREN'T. (Well as you have stated, we do not know the facts, we do know Adi pushed a woman after being pushed, we do not know of any verbal assualt, and we do know they were aggrivated by his actions, and from personal experience, pushing a woman back because she pushed you is not self defence, it is also assault)

And for all we know, Adi was not aware he was being watched by this boyfriend, and may not have been all about "calm down dear" but mqay have been like I will f**k you up you fat bitch? and may have pushed her pretty hard.

As I said, I don't believe it's something I would personally have done, but after being chased a couple of times, he no dobut felt cornered. And if nothing else, it was self-defence, not an initial act of violence. (Yes I also doubt Adi was abusive, but pushing someone is not self defence, not at least in the manner Adi describes, as he was pushed off his bike, he clearly pushed her back, like for like, assault. Her boyfriend may for all we know have been sitting in that car wishing she would shut up, he may have only seen him push her? Of course he shopuld have called the police, not got out and head butted him.)

I was not there but I know enough NOT to go by pamby cyclist "I am a victim" fairy stories.

You appear to have a chip on your shoulder, about certain types of cyclist - which is clearly colouring your response. ( Maybe?, I have also been hit by cars, and got into fights, and had to put up with abuse off the bike due to being a cyclist, due to drivers opinions of us cyclists all being the same, with no regard for personal saftey or other road users, road tax and all that malarky, I also have had to protect my children from irresponsible cyclists and repair bikes damaged in car accidents, and put up with staff off work due to them carrying on amongst traffic.)

There's a huge inbalance in the end result - how can that in any way be justified? The answer - it can't - which is why you can't address the point. (I am not trying to address any imbalance nor make any ecxuse for him getting beat up, merely pointing out that hitting cars and running away did not help, and may have only aggravated the situation, you cannot justify hitting a car mirror in the manner Adi did any more than a car driver can justify driving a cyclist off their bike and into the gutter due to oncomming traffic, that point is nothing to do with excusing violence or such, just plain opinion on cycling attitude, being assualted does not make it OK to disregard the drivers opinion of their car being bumped by a cyclist.)

The fact is he was an idiot, DON'T cycle expensive bikes in and out of traffic irresposibily then bitch when it goes wrong, dont push big boys girlfriends about.

The facts are that he made a mistake. And perhaps didn't deal with it ideally - that's taken in isolation - no doubt he's learnt something about that. ( I agree, and the violence was out of order, as was that above quote, I am wrong to call Adi an idiot (Sorry Adi))

None of which justifies or mitigates any violence or destruction of property.

Do by all means whine about it on a forum where many irresposible cyclists may be, who may also agree with you and not see anything wrong with hitting "bloody cars".

I'm not saying that at all. (OK)

I'm saying whatever he did wrong - and I'm not excusing that - wasn't justification or mitigation to the violence he enountered. (I agree)

And as important as it is for society to judge people being inconsiderate or arrogant, it's hugely more important for society to simply say NO to the acceptance, mitigation or empathy for those that would so readily turn to violence.

( I do not think you can ecxuse one for the other, both are unacceptable, and it can quite easilly escalate, cause and effect and such, wrong is wrong. I wonder if the ball had been on the foot and Adi had got the better of her boyfriend if there would have been a lot of "good one Adi" type comment?)

LOL sorry Neil,

I still think some cyclists seem to think it OK to hit a car, however softly, and ride on.

If it was a police car, I am sure many would not have taken the action Adi took, I am also sure the police would have something to say if a cyclist bumped their mirror in the same situation.
NONE of my opinion or what I say makes it OK to get hit by people. BUT none of what anyone says in defence makes it OK for a cyclsit to behave in such a manner either. Nor does having two wheels and pedal power mean you can fly through the traffic like Trinity in Matrix Revolutions

To cycle through that gap seemed irresponsible. We would not expect a motorcycle to do it, we would not expect a car to do it.

People overreact, this thread is an example, look at my posts and the responses given back. We have a classic example of the sort of thing cyclists complain of car drivers doing being, with an incident many a car driver complains about cyclists doing.

Adi made a Boo Boo, and sadly a big boy got involved, we can all agree that such violent behaviour was unacceptable, but it does not excuse the fact that howver small the initial incident, the iniitial incident could have been avoided and that cyclists should take more care and respect others property.

I personally would not cycle between cars, I have courier friends who suffered injury for such, and sorry but as far as I am aware road law abides to cyclists as well as cars and we are usually more vulnerable.
I have also witnessed road rage, I witnessed one guy on a bike being chased on a pavement by a car, and watched that cyclist pull out a knife, only to have the car driver pull out a golf club and cave his head in. I have a friend who was hit with an old car stereo from a car driver he pissed off due to a similar incident Adi describes. Another friend was seriously injured by judging a gap and ending up through a car windscreen. Roads are dangerous, people are unpredictable, and an attitude that sees it OK to ride between cars is inappropriate for such an environment (in my opinion).

Again I am not agreeing with physical assualt, nor do I find it funny or feel Adi deserved what happened.

I do live in the real world, and think you would have to live on cuckoo land if you think you can go around acting irresponsibly without someone with an attitude toward such behavour eventually crossing your path. These days there seem to be more car drivers pissed off with cyclists than cyclists pissed off with car drivers, it is not because all car drivers are numpties, but because so many cyclists do what they want and scare the crap out the drivers or damage their cars and react aggresive.

This thread at least serves to remind me NOT to think I am above the law and be carefull NOT to bump against cars when cycling! it also reminds me not to be agressive toward an irrate female car driver! It reminds me that I should PAY ATTENTION when cycling! And that many cyclists on forums MAY think it is OK to cycle in any manner they see fit! And that many cyclists live in some fairy land where there is no violence or people with an attitude that becomes aggressive when aggrivated!

Sorry if my humble opinion of the cycling between cars and hitting them as wrong seemed inappropriate. Once again, I am NOT condoning violence against cyclists, nor have I acceptance, mitigation or empathy toward the actions carried out against Adi, and I certainly have no acceptance, mitigation or empathy nor see any excuse for a cyclist to hit a car mirror in the manner that Adi did.

Now I wish Adi a speedy recovery. And hope my humble ramblings and opinion are not offensive, I am only a grumpy old man who does not mean to offend or cause argument.

 

[Neil]

Resorting to violence because you're angry about something - unacceptable. (Though it would seem OK to agrivate a woman to the point of assault and assault her back?)

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that anything he did was due provocation for either dangerous pursuit with a car, or assault. So that is rejected as the canard it truly is.

I have no idea wether the car was stolen or the witnesses reliable? You concluded Adi's statement as fact it would seem?)[/i]

No I didn't.

Another canard.

I simply said that three people had reported the same details. Neither of us know whether that was all done together, or separately and independently.

What I also said, is that for people so ready behave unlawfully, with driving dangerously, and quickly resorting to violence, I questioned whether it would be that much of a suprise if the plates were bogus.

this is only an opinion, but many here seem to think they can ride in any manner they wish through traffic without recourse, some seem to find it wrong that a car driver was unhappy with their mirror being hit.

Do they? Think it's wrong that a car driver was unhappy with their mirror being hit?

'cos I don't think it's wrong for a car driver to be unhappy about that. What I do think is wrong, is for a car driver to flip, drive dangerously, and then phsyically attack somebody because of it - especially as it would appear there was no damage.

Many seem to see nothing wrong with hitting cars

Where?

and running on thier way such as Adi did.

In terms of trying to evade, once he was being chased, I think he did entirely the right thing - clearly the results show that - what I think was his downfall, was that he didn't get away. Once they'd resorted to trying to use their car dangerously, he truly should have got the hell out of Dodge.

That's not the same as saying I think people (cyclists, or car drivers) should do a runner if they damage somebody's property, mind, merely that it's the right thing to do if you believe the other party is, well, unhinged.

a cyclist was in a rush and had no time to wait, which resulted in a car driver getting worked up about a mirror? I barging your way between cars not aggressive,

Impatient and inconsiderate, I might buy - but in fairness, the car driver may have stopped their car inconsiderately too - but I've no reason to suppose aggressiveness for something that was merely a mistake and an accident.

I believe that you inferring that, and suggesting that the woman was harassed and a victim in this, is very revealling, and very saddening.

after all he was going too fast to judge the distance and stop before hitting the mirror, and I do not consider pushing a woman who has been harassed

How was she harassed? How exactly?

She pursued him. He was merely trying to get out of there - in the circumstances, and certainly with hindsight, the right thing to do.

as self defence, it was resorting to violence. What about control, YOU think I am a numptie for thinking that both parties acted inappropropriately

Nope.

I think you're a numpty because you're so ready to gloss over their behaviour, and suggest that what he did was mitigation (you've used the words "provocation", "agrivate" and "harrassed"). That their quick and ready action to lawlessness, dangerous driving, and physical attack wasn't completely unacceptable, and should simply be condemned as is.

Your repeated attempts to mitigate and contextualise their behaviour is what makes me pretty damned sure you're a numpty.

you are defending his actions

Where?

I am not defending theirs

You have repeatedly either glossed over it, or keep trying to mitigate it.

I am not the one glorifying cycling between cars and hitting mirrors and running away as acceptable

Who, here, is?

The incident was NOT mearly him hitting the mirror and someone getting out and hitting him, Adi clearly states the actions of evasion and chase

Which in the circumstances, and with hindsight, was completely the right thing to do. Once he was chased by the car, he did completely the right thing in trying to get away.

Up to that point, it's a judgement call as to whether at that moment in time, and taking into account all he can about what he can see from the car occupants, as to whether it may be a risk going back to them.

Let me remind you that all we know from what's been described is that there was no damage to their mirror.

As soon as they started to chase him, he was doing exactly the right thing by trying to get away - because how could he be sure he wouldn't be met with violence - and guess what happened?

the confrontations and different locations? He elevated her anger with each evasion

That was her mistake - if there was no damage, what the hell was she trying to do by driving dangerously and catching up with him?

Did the safety of all the other road users at that time, become negligable?

he had items and abuse hurled at him, he pushed back when pushed

That is self-defence.

By that point, he'd been chased by somebody, dangerously, by car, then physically assaulted. He responded to the physical assault, with the same force - not over the top like the boyfriend - but force within the same bounds.

That's self-defence.

That's also the reason why what the boyfriend did, wasn't - it was escalated, and beyond any personal threat.

and confronted and interacted with her boyfriend, this guy also had a push and shove match with Adi, what Adi does not elaborate on is all the shouting and swearing that was going back and forth which was no doubt enflaming the already volatile situation his arogant cycling

Why do you infer arrogance from his cycling, when it could simply have been a misjudgement?

Plenty of car drivers stop, simply to chat, or when they stop in traffic, they do so inconveniently - and sometimes deliberately to obstruct cyclists.

had caused. Hardly quickly and easily, and certainly provocation from each party

And that's exactly why you are a numpty - because you seem all to ready to use provocation in your description of their behaviour, when it resulted in dangerous use of their car, and physical attack.

That's where you are simply wrong - and you are wrong, like it or not - there was no provocation that mitigates their use of their car, or the physical assault.

I also doubt Adi was abusive, but pushing someone is not self defence, not at least in the manner Adi describes, as he was pushed off his bike, he clearly pushed her back, like for like, assault.

It's not assault - in that circumstance, after being already physically assaulted, and dangerously chased by a car - his actions were self-defence, as reported.

I have also been hit by cars, and got into fights, and had to put up with abuse off the bike due to being a cyclist, due to drivers opinions of us cyclists all being the same, with no regard for personal saftey or other road users, road tax and all that malarky, I also have had to protect my children from irresponsible cyclists and repair bikes damaged in car accidents, and put up with staff off work due to them carrying on amongst traffic.

I'll say two things in response to that:-

1. I'm mainly a car driver, these days.
2. In around 30 years of being a cyclist, the amount of damage I've done to vehicles: 0, the amount of times I've either been physically damaged (either me or my bike) by vehicles: around 5 times.

The amount of times I've been physically risked by cars when on a bike: countless - the amount of times I've physically risked cars when on a bike: 0.

Whatever you think about cyclists and drivers in general, cyclists get the worse end of the stick - and in general, have a lot more to worry about.

I am not trying to address any imbalance nor make any ecxuse for him getting beat up

Yes you are - you keep talking about the car drivers being harassed and provoked. I suggest you reread what you post on the matter.

merely pointing out that hitting cars

To which all we know from what's been written is that there was no damage.

and running away did not help, and may have only aggravated the situation

Clearly his mistake once realising he had to escape (after, I might add, being chased dangerously by a car) was not escaping.

you cannot justify hitting a car mirror in the manner Adi did

To which all we can know from what's been posted, is that no damage occurred.

any more than a car driver can justify driving a cyclist off their bike and into the gutter due to oncomming traffic

What utter, utter rubbish.

How you can equate contact with property - which in the example we're given there was apparently no damage - with physically barging a cyclist into a gap where they may well suffer physical harm, I don't know. As I said earlier, and I'm now convinced - you're delusional.

that point is nothing to do with excusing violence or such

Yes, yes it does, because in your inept and disturbing, repeated willingness to mitigate their actions, you do exactly that.

just plain opinion on cycling attitude, being assualted does not make it OK to disregard the drivers opinion of their car being bumped by a cyclist

What a decidely odd reversal of the damage.

Their opinion, and their ability to brandish it doesn't give them wanton acceptance on chasing people dangerously, or mitigation for provocation when somebody repeatedly tries to evade such unhinged people.

What about risk to other road users at the time?

Do by all means whine about it on a forum where many irresposible cyclists may be, who may also agree with you and not see anything wrong with hitting "bloody cars".

Why are you so ready to pre-judge cyclists, here, as being irresponsible?

I've never encountered any damage to the cars I own, from cyclists. But plenty of dings and scrapes in car parks (plus a tow-bar ball through a headlamp) from car drivers.

I'm saying whatever he did wrong - and I'm not excusing that - wasn't justification or mitigation to the violence he enountered.

(I agree)

So if it wasn't justification or mitigation, why do you keep on talking about provocation, about being harassed, provoked, antagonised?

If it was completely unacceptable, what place does such mitigation and contextualising have - except to partially defend?

I wonder if the ball had been on the foot and Adi had got the better of her boyfriend if there would have been a lot of "good one Adi" type comment?

Do you mean if he'd successully defended himself by somebody assaulting and attacking him?

I still think some cyclists seem to think it OK to hit a car, however softly, and ride on.

That's your choice and belief, but my experience has shown my car is a lot more at risk from other car drivers, than cyclists - perhaps others can contribute their experience on the matter.

I'd say - given the sheer numbers, and what I see outside my windscreen every day - there's a lot more car drivers willing to play inconsiderate or arrogant, that cyclists.

If it was a police car, I am sure many would not have taken the action Adi took, I am also sure the police would have something to say if a cyclist bumped their mirror in the same situation.

And what do you think the Police would have done about the car drivers, were they there? And what do you think would have happened if it was a police cyclist that made contact with their mirror (and also didn't damage it)?

NONE of my opinion or what I say makes it OK to get hit by people.

Oh no, you're just foolish enough to try and mitigate it by repeatedly talking about provocation.

BUT none of what anyone says in defence makes it OK for a cyclsit to behave in such a manner either.

What? Make a mistake?

Car drivers do it all the time, why are you so ready to simply judge cyclists like this?

People overreact, this thread is an example, look at my posts and the responses given back. We have a classic example of the sort of thing cyclists complain of car drivers doing being, with an incident many a car driver complains about cyclists doing.

Whether true, or otherwise, there's a remarkable gulf in physical risk, there.

Contact without damage, is rather trivial in comparison to physical injury.

 

[gibbleking]

as far as i can recall getting out of your car to confront someone is considered attempted assult as the act is provocational.you only have to read where the accident occured in relation to where the assult took place.the drivers would have been charged with assult with a deadly weapon(the car) and actul bodily harm which carries quite a severe sentance. i can hear the conversation now with the judge.so after the wing mirror was clipped and there was no damage done did you call the police because the cyclist failed to stop.no ya honur me and the missus chased him down ...cornered him ....wrecked his bike and broke his glasses and then we beat the crap outta him....seems like a balnced reaction to me ......not guilty!

 

[al-onestare]

First off, I think we can all agree that the mistake here was not stopping to apologise for the knock. It's good manners . As cyclists, we're all aware of how vunerable we are to knocks from others. Hand on heart, especially anyone who has been knocked or hit by others, we are pretty quick to shout and scream; sometimes correctly, sometimes not. Whilst the behaviour and actions by the driver and passenger were totally out of proportion to the action (and should be arrested for assault) perhaps this is a good reminder for us to think before we ride off into the distance after a misdemeanour!

I've commuted into the city now for almost three years, from Bromley. In that time I've had one proper accident (one dead Kona, one massive elephant foot and two tasty scars) and a number of scrapes. Two, true examples:

1. Cycling in the small cycle lane in Rotherhithe I brushed a white man vans wing mirror with my rucksack. I stopped, rolled back and apologised. I got an absolute ear-full but it prevented, in my opinion, any potential for more agro.

2. Just before Catford, returning to Bromley, I am cut up in a bus lane. A blacked out VW Golf, from nowhere, cuts across me turning left into a Shell garage. I manage to miss the car by inches, but fall off. No damage is made to the bike or me, thankfully, but I preceed to find out what the **** the driver was thinking. She was on her phone, oblivious to what had happened, and refused to put down her window.

In hindsight, I'm glad she didn't because I'm not sure what I thought I was going to achieve. I took the registration, informed the old bill......and nothing has happened even though there's CCTV at the forecourt which would probably pick up the incident.

Even though these example aren't the best I suppose the lesson is treat those as you'd expect others to treat you. You, me and I would expect a proper apology if we were knocked and vice versa.

 

[ferrus]

Disagree. The fella said he tried to appologize ''but she wasn't listening'', apparently turning into a ''mental snarling bitch''. There is no way that he should have had to confront this, -enough effort had been made.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has their priorities confused, it seems to me.

 

[al-onestare]

Disagree. The fella said he tried to appologize ''but she wasn't listening'', apparently turning into a ''mental snarling bitch''. There is no way that he should have had to confront this, -enough effort had been made.
Anyone who thinks otherwise has their priorities confused, it seems to me.

My bad, I should of been more specific; instead of the wave, a simple stop and apology would have been preferable.

We're not to know whether that would have made any difference to the outcome of course.