Violent Assault leaves my Retro bike DEAD... what next ?

[sastusbulbas]

Well regardless of the ranting I did, I do not agree with attacking cyclists who bump into cars, but do know Adi will not be the last cyclist to experience such behavour from a car driver.

And regardless of the ranting replies and name calling whoever is wrong or right, the fact is that if cyclists are going to attemp to ride by cars and bump into them, it is all the excuse some people need to start a fight.

As I said before I work in the cycle industry, I work with a lot of car owning cyclists, and just about every one of them stated that they would not be happy with their car being bumped into by a bicycle and that they would confront the rider.


As for me being a Numpty, fair enough, but I do not ride recklessly into stationary cars, nor am I blind to the fact that the chain of events was started by Adi's little accident, that is not me excusing the actions carried out toward Adi, but stating the blatantly obvious, there are reasons to be carefull around cars and on roads.

 

[sastusbulbas]

Resorting to violence because you're angry about something - unacceptable. (Though it would seem OK to agrivate a woman to the point of assault and assault her back?)

I'm sorry, but I don't buy that anything he did was due provocation for either dangerous pursuit with a car, or assault. So that is rejected as the canard it truly is. TRIPE NEIL, NO NEED TO HIT CARS WAS THE POINT, NO NEED TO BE IN SUCH A HURRY, DON'T TURN IT AROUND. ADI DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE ANY OF THE ACTIONS, THEY WERE HIS CHOICES, THEY LED TO THE RESULTS, REGARDLESS OF ANYONES OPINION OF THEM. IF HE HAD STOPPED AT THE SCHENE AND OPENLY APPOLOGISED EYE TO EYE HE MAY HAVE HAD AN EARBSHING, HE MAY STILL HAVE HAD AN ASSAULT, QUITE SIMPLY ADI PUSHED HER BACK< LIKE FOR LIKE YET YOU STATE SUCH AS UNACCEPTABLE! HYPOCRICY.

I have no idea wether the car was stolen or the witnesses reliable? You concluded Adi's statement as fact it would seem?)[/i]

No I didn't. Yes you did, you said you were going with Occam's Razor, indicating that you were accepting that statement regarding the plates?

Another canard. NO

I simply said that three people had reported the same details. Neither of us know whether that was all done together, or separately and independently. AND SEEMED TO IMPLY YOUR AGREEMENT.

What I also said, is that for people so ready behave unlawfully, with driving dangerously, and quickly resorting to violence, I questioned whether it would be that much of a suprise if the plates were bogus.

this is only an opinion, but many here seem to think they can ride in any manner they wish through traffic without recourse, some seem to find it wrong that a car driver was unhappy with their mirror being hit.

Do they? Think it's wrong that a car driver was unhappy with their mirror being hit?

'cos I don't think it's wrong for a car driver to be unhappy about that. What I do think is wrong, is for a car driver to flip, drive dangerously, and then phsyically attack somebody because of it - especially as it would appear there was no damage.

Many seem to see nothing wrong with hitting cars

Where? Quite simply, only a few mention he should have been carefull, and these postes are quickly defended by things like "Yeah but is wisnae broke" or such like.

and running on thier way such as Adi did.

In terms of trying to evade, once he was being chased, I think he did entirely the right thing - clearly the results show that - what I think was his downfall, was that he didn't get away. Once they'd resorted to trying to use their car dangerously, he truly should have got the hell out of Dodge. HMMM... WELL LET ME SEE.. DID HE NOT JUST MOSEY ON ALONG WITHOUT VERBAL OR EYE TO EYE CONTACT WITH THE MOTORIST? DID HE ACTUALLY STOP TO SEE OR HEAR ANY OPINION? I GOT THE IMPRESSION THAT SOME CAR DRIVER MAY HAVE BEEN TRYING TO GIVE SOME SMART ASSED CYCLIST A EAR BASHING FOR HITTING HER CAR, AND HE KEPT AVOIDING HER, LEADING TO THE PURSUIT?

That's not the same as saying I think people (cyclists, or car drivers) should do a runner if they damage somebody's property, mind, merely that it's the right thing to do if you believe the other party is, well, unhinged. WELL THE FACT IS HE DID NOT STOP TO MAKE AN EVALUATED JUDGEMENT< HE JUST HIT HER CAR AND TRIED TO FECK OFF!

a cyclist was in a rush and had no time to wait, which resulted in a car driver getting worked up about a mirror? I barging your way between cars not aggressive,

Impatient and inconsiderate, I might buy - but in fairness, the car driver may have stopped their car inconsiderately too - but I've no reason to suppose aggressiveness for something that was merely a mistake and an accident. SO THATS AN EXCUSE TO ACT IN AN INCONSIDERATE MANNER! More HIPOCRISY I GUESS

I believe that you inferring that, and suggesting that the woman was harassed and a victim in this, is very revealling, and very saddening. NO THERE IS NOTHING INFERRED, NOR REVEALLING OR SADDENING ABOUT THIS, THE THREAD AND YOUR RESPONCES TO MINE AND FAR MORE REVEALLING. AS ARE YOUR OWN SUGGESTIONS AND CONCLUSIONS.

after all he was going too fast to judge the distance and stop before hitting the mirror, and I do not consider pushing a woman who has been harassed

How was she harassed? How exactly? ADI HIT HER CAR FIRST, AND DID NOT STOP, THIS CLEARLY CAUSED HER HARRASEMENT, CLEARLY NOT AN EXCUSE FOR ADI GETTING HIT, BUT YOU ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO THINK I IMPLY THIS.

She pursued him. He was merely trying to get out of there - in the circumstances, and certainly with hindsight, the right thing to do. THE RIGHT THING TO DO WOULD HAVE CLEARLY BEEN 1 NOT TO GO BETWEEN TWO STATIONARY VEHICLES IN SUCH A MANNER, 2 NOT TO RUN AWAY FROM THE SCHENE, 3 NOT TO RUN AWAY FROM A WOMAN WHO WANTS TO HAVE A WORD WITH YOU FOR HITTING HER CAR AND RUNNING OFF. THE INAPPRROPRIATE BEHAVOUR OF THE DRIVER HAPPENED AFTER THESE FACTS.

as self defence, it was resorting to violence. What about control, YOU think I am a numptie for thinking that both parties acted inappropropriately

Nope.

I think you're a numpty because you're so ready to gloss over their behaviour, and suggest that what he did was mitigation (you've used the words "provocation", "agrivate" and "harrassed"). That their quick and ready action to lawlessness, dangerous driving, and physical attack wasn't completely unacceptable, and should simply be condemned as is. IT SHOULD NOT BE GLOOSED OVER THAT A CYCLIST ACTED INAPPROPRIATELY ON THE ROAD, AND THAT HIS BEHAVOUR INFLAMED AND INAPPROPRIATE RESPONCE, YOU ARE AGAIN IMPLYING WRONGLY THAT I SUGGEST THE BEHAVOUR OF ONE PARTY AS ACCEPTABLE, THIS I DO NOT, I THINK AS SEPERATE AND JOINTED ACTIONS BOTH PARTY'S WERE ACTING UNACCEPTABLY, WHAT I SEEM TO BE DOING IS POINTING OUT THAT ONE WRONG DOES NOT MAKE ANOTHER WRONG HOWEVER TRIVIAL ACCEPTABLE OR EXCUSABLE. BOTH PARTY'S ACTIONS SHOULD BE CONDEMED.

Your repeated attempts to mitigate and contextualise their behaviour is what makes me pretty damned sure you're a numpty. HMM, AGAIN I AM NOT TRYING TO DO ANYTHING SO CLEVER OR UNTOWARD, I SIMPLY DON'T AGREE WITH CYCLES HITTING CARS NOR DO I LIVE IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE DO NOT HIT PEOPLE, NOR DOES THAT IMPLY I THINK ANY SUCH BEHAVOUR IS ACCEPTABLE. AGAIN, IF I GO UP TOWN AND BUMP INTO A GIRL AT A CLUB, IF SHE PUSHES ME FOR DOING SO, I MAY ALSO GET SOME VERBAL ABUSE FRO HER AND SOME BLOKES, IF I PUSH HER BACK I WOULD EXPECT TO GET A FEW SMACKS FROM THE LADS AROUND HER, AS THAT IS HOW THE REAL WORLD SEEM STO BEHAVE, IF I HIT A CAR AND DO NOT STOP, THERE ARE PLENTY OF CAR DRIVERS THAT WILL QUITE SIMPLY SAY "WHERE THE FCKU DO YOU THINK YOU ARE GOING" AND I AM QUITE SURE MANY WOULD PURSUE ME IF I JUST IGNORED THEM. THIS DOES NOT IMPLY I AM LIKE THIS OR THAT I AGREE, JUST THAT I SIMPLY RECOGNISE SUCH ACTIONS CAN TAKE PLACE IN THE REAL WORLD.

you are defending his actions

Where? WELL YOU ARE STILL BUMPING YOUR GUMS AND NOW INSINUATING MY RESPONSES WITH YOUR ASSUMPTIONS.

I am not defending theirs

You have repeatedly either glossed over it, or keep trying to mitigate it. POO POO RUBBISH, I MERELY THINK BOTH PARTIES DID SOMETHING WRONG, NEITHER IS AN EXCUSE FOR THE OTHER, NEITHER IS ACCEPTABLE IN ISOLATION OR OTHERWISE.

I am not the one glorifying cycling between cars and hitting mirrors and running away as acceptable

Who, here, is? GROSS EXAGERATION BUT THE THREAD SEEMS TO GLOSS OVER THE INITIAL CAUSE OF THE INCIDENT, HOWEVER INEXCUSABLE THE FOLLOWING ASSAULT WAS.

The incident was NOT mearly him hitting the mirror and someone getting out and hitting him, Adi clearly states the actions of evasion and chase

Which in the circumstances, and with hindsight, was completely the right thing to do. Once he was chased by the car, he did completely the right thing in trying to get away. THE RIGHT THING TO DO IS CYCLE IN AN APPROPRIATE MANNER, TO SPEAK TO THE CAR OWNER OR AT LEAST HAVE VERBAL AND EYE CONTACT BEFORE JUST CYCLING OFF, ANYTHING ELSE IS ARROGANCE, YOU DONT BUMP INTO PEOPLE OR KNOCK OVER PRODUCE IN A STORE AND JUST WALK AWAY. IN SIMPLE CONTEX EVERYTHING ADI DID WAS WRONG AS EACH STEP LED TO AN EXCALATION OF THE SITUATION. AND AGAIN DO NOT JUMP TO ANY CONCLUSION, AS CLEALY BOTH PARTIES ARE GUILTY OF THIS AND THAT, I AM NOT DEFENDING OR MAKING EXCUSES JUST ANSWERING TATTLE.

Up to that point, it's a judgement call as to whether at that moment in time, and taking into account all he can about what he can see from the car occupants, as to whether it may be a risk going back to them.

Let me remind you that all we know from what's been described is that there was no damage to their mirror. MORE GLOSSING OVER, DID ADI CHECK OR HAVE ANY VISUAL THUMBS UP AND SMILE FROM THE DRIVER BEFORE CYCLING OFF? DID ADI SEE THE DRIVER CONFIRM NO DAMAGE? I SUSPECT ADI DID NOT GET A KICKING BECAUSE OF HIM HITTING THE CAR, BUT AS A RESULT OF HIS PHYSICAL INTERACTION WITH THE WOMAN WHILE THE LARGE GENTLEMAN WAS WATCHING, AFTER ALL HE HAD NO INTERACTION UP UNTIL ADI SEEMED TO BE GETTING JIGGY WITH MISS WADDLE!

As soon as they started to chase him, he was doing exactly the right thing by trying to get away - because how could he be sure he wouldn't be met with violence - and guess what happened? CONJECTURE, WE DO NOT KNOW IF ALL THAT WOULD HAVE HAPPENED IS A LOT OF VERBAL AT THE SCHENE DUE TO ADI TAKING IT UPON HIMSELF TO DECIDE THE IMPORTANCE OF THE ACCIDENT AND LEAVING THE SCENE, WE DO KNOW THAT SHE ENDED UP GETTING OUT OF THE CAR TO CONFRONT HIM, THIS MAY NOT HAVE HAPPENED IF ADI HAD STOPPED AND OPENLY APPOLOGISED AT THE FIRST SCENE, OR WHEN HE NOTICED HER FOLLOWING, WE DO SEEM TO HAVE NO VARYFICATION OF THE GENTLEMAN WHO HIT ADI HAVING ANY INVOLVEMENT UP UNTIL THE MOMENT ADI PUSHED THE WOMAN, THEREFOR WE HAVE ONLY SPECULATION OF ANY INTENT, WHAT IS CLEARLY OBVIOUS IS THAT ADI HAD NO INTENT TO STOP AFTER HITTING THE CAR. THEREFOR DID TEH GENTLEMAN KNOW IF HE INTENDED TO STOP AT JUST PUSHING TEH WOMAN, WHO KNOWS, AS IT IS ALL JUST SPECUALATION BASED ON ADI'S SIDE OF THE STORY, AND ADI SEEMS TO THINK HITTING CARS IS ACCEPTABE.

the confrontations and different locations? He elevated her anger with each evasion

That was her mistake - if there was no damage, what the hell was she trying to do by driving dangerously and catching up with him? NO IT WAS ADI'S MISTAKE ALSO, HE SHOULD NOT HAVE JUST ASSUMED HE COULD DO AS HE WISHED AND CYCLED OFF, HE COULD HAVE STOPPED AT THE FIRST NOTICE OF HER FOLLOWING. IF HE HAD STOPPED SHE WOULD NOT HAVE FOLLOWED, AND AS SHE HAD ROLLED DOWN HER WINDOW TO "VERBALLY ASSAULT" ADI, THIS WAS AN INDICATION ADI'S CYCLING OFF WAS A RASH DECISSION, NOT AN EXCUSE FOR TURNING IN THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION AND AVOIDING HER, WE HAVE NO IDEA OF HER INITIAL INTENT, WE DO KNOW THAT SHE GOT SO PEEVED OFF AT ADI HITTING HER CAR AND CONTINUALLY AVOIDIN HER THAT SHE PUSHED HIM. FROM WHAT I CAN SEE, THE WORST THAT MAY HAVE HAPPENED MAY HAVE BEEN A VERBAL BASHING WHICH AFTER THE CHASING MAY HAVE BEEN A VERBAL BASHING AND A PUSH. THE CAUSE OF THE ASSUALT IS UNCERTAIN, IF HE DID NOT PUSH THE WOMAN THE MAN MAY NOT HAVE CAME OUT OF THE CAR, IF HE HAD NOT DECIDED TO CYCLE BETWEEN TWO CARS HE WOULD NOT HAVE HIT A MIRROR, IF HE HAD NOT CONTINUED CYCLING SHE WOULD NOT HAVE FOLLOWED ETC ETC

Did the safety of all the other road users at that time, become negligable? IF ADI DEEMED IT SAFE TO CYCLE IN A MANNER WHICH COULD RESULT IN A CAR BEING DAMAGED AT WHICH POINT DOES SAFETY OF OTHER ROAD USERS BECOME AN ISSUE, CLEARLY CYCLING IN AND OUT OF CARS FOR YOUR OWN CONVENIENCE IS DEEMED DANGEROUS, IT ANGERS MANY CAR DRIVERS, AND MANY POLICE OFFICERS WILL PULL YOU UP FOR INAPPROPRIATE CYCLING. ADI HIT A MIRROR THROUGH LACK OF ATTENTION, IT COULD EASILY HAVE BEEN ANOTHER INCIDENT, FOR INSTANCE WHAT IF SOME CAR DRIVER CANNOT SEE ANOTHER CYCLIST DUE TO A MISALIGHNED MIRROR AND TURNS INTO THEM BEFORE NOTICING ANYTHING UNTOWARD? CLEARLY THE WOMAN WAS DRIVING INAPPROPRIATELY, BUT CLEARLY THIS WAS ALSO A RESULT OF ADI'S INAPPROPRIATE ACTIONS, CAUSE AND EFFECT ETC.

he had items and abuse hurled at him, he pushed back when pushed

That is self-defence. HMM NO, AT NO POINT DO I SEE PUSHING SELF DEFENCE, AND I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE OF SUCH MATTERS, QUITE SIMPLY THE MATTER AROSE OUT OF ADI'S ATTITUDE, AND EVEN AT THAT POINT OF CONTACT HE HAD NO HANDS OPEN AND NO EYE CONTACT IF HE HAD DESIGNER GLASSES ON, SELF DEFENCE WOULD HAVE BEEN SIDE STEPPING AND AVOIDING BEING PUSHED, PUSHING BACK AFTER BEING PUSHED IS ASSAULT ALSO, IF I PUNCH SOMEONE BACK IT IS ASSAULT, IF THERE IS CLEAR EVIDENCE AND WITNESSES THAT I WAS BEING HIT AND RESORTED TO HITTING BACK, IT MAY BE AGGRIVATED ASSUALT? OTHERWISE IT IS USUALLY A FIGHT.

By that point, he'd been chased by somebody, dangerously, by car, then physically assaulted. He responded to the physical assault, with the same force - not over the top like the boyfriend - but force within the same bounds.

That's self-defence. NO IT IS NOT, I DO NOT THINK BEING PUSHED BY A GIRL IS ENOUGH CAUSE FOR A MAN TO PUSH BACK, IF SHE HAD STARTED TO HIT HIM THEN THERE WOULD HAVE BEEN CLEAR CAUSE TO EVALUATE THE SITUATION BEFORE TAKING MATTERS OF "SELF DEFENCE" INTO ONES HANDS. CLEARLY SHOUTING FOR HELP MAY BE USEFULL, BUT GRABBING A WOMAN AND ATTEMPTING TO RESTRAIN HER I WOULD NOT EVEN DO THESE DAYS UNLESS A WEAPON OR HAND TO HAND TRAINING WAS EVIDENT, USUALLY HITTING BACK IS A LAST RESORT, AND THROWNED UPON BY AUTHORITIES.

That's also the reason why what the boyfriend did, wasn't - it was escalated, and beyond any personal threat. A MAN SEES ANOTHER MAN PUSHING A WOMAN, AND DECIDES TO INTERACT, WE HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING WHAT IT LOOKED LIKE FROM HIS SEAT, NOR IS BEATING UP ADI EXCUSABLE, BUT AGAIN IT SEEMS HE ONLY INTERACTED WHEN ADI PUSHED BACK, AT LEAST ADI DID NOT GET STABBED OR SHOT.

and confronted and interacted with her boyfriend, this guy also had a push and shove match with Adi, what Adi does not elaborate on is all the shouting and swearing that was going back and forth which was no doubt enflaming the already volatile situation his arogant cycling

Why do you infer arrogance from his cycling, when it could simply have been a misjudgement? BECAUSE "I THINK" HITTING A CAR AND ASSUMING IT IS OK TO CYCLE OFF WITHOUT ADDRESSING THE DRIVER OR SITUATION IS AROGANT! IT IS MY OPINION I AM INFERING UPON. WHY DO YOU SEEM TO GLOSS OVER THE POINT RAISED IN THE ABOVE QUOTE ABOUT ADI HAVING A PUSH AND SHOVE AND VERBAL MATCH WITH THE MAN WHICH IS NOT ELABORATED ON, AS TO ME IN MY OPINION THIS INFERS THAT ADI GOT INTO A FIGHT, WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN AVOIDED AT MANY STAGES WITH A DIFFERENT APROACH. REMEMBER ADI GOT INTO THIS FIGHT BECAUSE OF HIS INTERACTION WITH THE WOMAN, WHICH STARTED BECAUSE OF HIS ATTITUDE TO HER AND HER CAR, CAUSE AND EFFECT, REGARDLESS OF HOW UNACCEPTABLE ANYONES BEHAVOUR. I BELIEVE MANY MEN WOULD JUMP TO DEFEND A WOMAN IF THEY SAW SOME GUY ARGUING WITH HER AND PUSHING HER, PARTICULARY IF THEY KNEW THE WOMAN.

NOW IF YOU READ THE INITIAL POST, WE SEE THAT THE MAN CAME OUT AND PUSHED ADI AWAY FROM THE WOMAN, THIS MAY HAVE BEEN AN INDICATION THAT HE WAS BREAKING IT UP OR DEFENDING HER, HE PUSHES ADI AWAY, ADI PUSHES BACK, THIS IS NOT DEFENSIVE BUT AGGRESIVE.

NOW CLEARLY THE SITUATION WAS OVER AND DIFFUSED, AT THE POINT OF ADI "FIGHTING" BACK WITH THE PUSHING AND SHOVING ACCUMULATING IN HIS GLASSES GETTING BROKEN, ADI'S OWN STATEMENT MENTIONS THAT THE MAN GETS ANGRY AT ADI PULLING OUT HIS MOBILE PHONE, AND RUNNING BACK TO HIM, SO ADI ADMITS THAT THE MAN HAD ONLY PUSHED HIM AND WAS ON HIS WAY, THERE AT THIS POINT WAS NO INDICATION OF ANY ASSUALT OR SUCH, ADI COULD HAVE CHOSEN TO LET THEM DRIVE AWAY AND WHEN SAFE CALL THE POLICE, SADLY ADI PULLING OUT A MOBILE PHONE AGRIVATED THE SITUATION FURTHER, BUT HIS REMARKS AND ATTITUDE SEEM TO INDICATE HIM AS AN INDIVIDUAL ARGUING BACK AND PUSHING BACK WHICH WAS AFTER IT ALL BEING CAUSED BY HIS ACTIONS, NOT QUITE AS INOCENT OR SIMPLE A CONFRONTATION AS IT SEEMS.

Plenty of car drivers stop, simply to chat, or when they stop in traffic, they do so inconveniently - and sometimes deliberately to obstruct cyclists. WHICH IS NO EXCUSE TO BECOME A DANGER YOURSELF OR TAKE MATTERS INTO ONES OWN HANDS.

had caused. Hardly quickly and easily, and certainly provocation from each party

And that's exactly why you are a numpty - because you seem all to ready to use provocation in your description of their behaviour, when it resulted in dangerous use of their car, and physical attack. AND CLEARY SUCH IS AN INDICATION OF YOUR OWN MENTALITY, I AM NOT A NUMPTY, AS IT WAS NOT ME WHO HIT A CAR, RAN AWAY NOR PUSHED A WOMAN, NOR DID I GET IN A FIGHT DUE TO MY INAPPROPRIATE BEHAVOUR, THE MAN CLEARLY GOT OUT TO SEPERATE ADI AND THE WOMAN, WAS CLEARLY PISSED OF WITH ADI, AFTER ALL IT WAS ADI WHO STARTED IT ALL, AND AS A RESULT OF ALL THE HOO HAA WITH ADI, THE GUY TAKES HIS GLASSES OFF AND BREAKS THEM AND WALKS AWAY, BUT NO ADI WAS NOT GOING TO LET IT LIE, AND HE ESCALATES IT FURTHER BY OPENLY THREATENING TO CALL THE POLICE WHILE THE MAN WHO WAS THREATENING WAS WATCHING? WHO WAS THE NUMPTY? WHAT WAS TO BE THE EXPECTED OUTCOME? WHO IS DEFENDING ONE ACT OVER ANOTHER WHEN BOTH WERE OUT OF ORDER? SORRY BUT AT VARIOUS STAGES ADI CLEARLY ESCALATED AND WOUND THIS COUPLE UP, AND IN THE REAL WORL GOING AROUND AND DOING SUCH CAN BE UNPREDICTABLE, TAKE YOURSELF, DEFENDING ADI WHEN BOTH PARTIES NEED NO DEFENCE.

That's where you are simply wrong - and you are wrong, like it or not - there was no provocation that mitigates their use of their car, or the physical assault. I DO NOT SEE MUCH BUT ADI TALKING OF THE CAR, WE DO NOT KNOW HOW WELL SHE DRIVED, AND THE PHYSICAL ASSUALT WAS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN, ADI WAS NIAVE ENOUGH TO PUSH BACK, THREATEN BACK AND OPENLY SO, WHEN HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN PASSIVE AND APPOLOGETIC, AFTER ALL LETS NOT FORGET HE STARTED THE FIGHT AND KEPT IT GOING AND IT'S ONLY NUMPTIES LIKE YOU WHO ARE SPECULATING WHAT ADI EXPECTED TO HAPPEN AND DEFENDING HIS ACTIONS, WHEN CLEARLY ADI STARTED IT AND AT VARIOUS POINTS ESCALATED IT. AND AGAIN IT MAY SEEM LIKE I AM DEFENDING WHICH IS NOT MY INTENTION, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR HITTING CARS WITH BIKES, THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CHASING BIKES IN CARS, THERE IS NO EXCUSE TO IGNORE A MOTORIST AFTER HITTING THEIR CAR, THERE IS NO REASON TO PUSH A WOMAN WHO PUSHES YOU FOR HITTING THEIR CAR, THERE IS NO REASON NOT TO EXPECT SOEMONE TO PUSH YOU AWAY FROM A WOMAN DURING AN ARGUMENT, AND NO REASON NOT TO EXPECT SOEMONE TO HIT YOU IN SUCH A SITUATION IF YOU OPENLY AGRIVATE THEM, WHICH ADI DID BY PULLING OUT HIS PHONE, NOR IS THERE ANY REASON FOR SOMEONE TO HEADBUT SOMEONE FOR WANTING TO CALL THE POLICE, OR ANY REASON TO SMASH UP SOMEONES BIKE. SADLY THOUGH, AS THIS THREAD SHOWS THERE ARE CYCLISTS WHO WILL DECIDE TO TAKE RISKS ON ROADS, THERE ARE DRIVERS WHO WILL NOT ACCEPT CYCLISTS BEHAVOUR, THERE ARE WOMEN WHO WILL PUSH MEN, THERE ARE MEN WHO WILL PUSH WOMEN, THERE ARE MEN WHO DO NOT LIKE MEN AND WOMEN FIGHTING, AND THERE ARE MEN WHO WILL GET DEFENSIVE AND MEN WHO WILL HIT YOU WITH ANY SORT OF EXCUSE AS PROVOKATION.

I also doubt Adi was abusive, but pushing someone is not self defence, not at least in the manner Adi describes, as he was pushed off his bike, he clearly pushed her back, like for like, assault.

It's not assault - in that circumstance, after being already physically assaulted, and dangerously chased by a car - his actions were self-defence, as reported. I DISAGREE, HE STATES HE WAS PUSHED, NOT BEING ATTACKED, SHE PUSHED HIM AND STOPPED, HE APPARENTLY WAS ON THE GROUND AND GOT BACK UP, AT NO POINT IS THERE ANY INDICATION OF HER CONTINUING TO ASSAULT HIM, THAT HAS ALREADY OCCURED, WHAT WE HAVE IS AN ESCALATION OF THE EVENT, WHICH IS BY NO MEANS APPROVED OF IN ANY SELF DEFENCE CLASS I KNOW OF, WHERE THE ASSIALED IN A DEFUSED SITUATION (AS SHE APPARENTLY SEEMS TO HAVE STOPPED THE PURSUE OF ASSUALT AND IS STANDING DOING NOTHING THERE IS NO ASSAULT TO DEFEND), HE WAS STANDING TOE TO TOE WITH A WOMAN AND DECIDED TO PUSH HER BACK, HE WAS NOT FIGHTING HER OFF NOR IN ANY OBVIOUS PHYSICAL DANGER, AND EVEN AT THE POINT OF INTERVENTION BY THE MAN PUSHING ADI BACK DID ADI BACK DOWN, NO ADI CLEARLY STATES HE WAS PUSHING BACK, HE WAS ALSO BEING AGRESSIVE. NOW IN THAT SITUATION I WOULD HAVE BEEN PASSIVE, THE MAN IS CLEARLY ANGRY BUT NOT BEING PHYSICAL, AND HIS CHOICE OF TAKING THE FRUSTRATION OUT ON THE GLASSES WAS AN INDICATION OF THE ESCALATION AND DIFFUSON OF THE SITUATION AT THAT MOMENT.
iF THE WOMAN HAD KEPT ON, BY TRYING TO KICK ADI WHEN HE WAS DOWN, OR BY PUNCHING HIM WHEN HE WAS UP, OR BY PULLING HIS HAIR, THEN YES SOMETHING WOULD HAVE BEEN IN ORDER, IF THE BIG GUY HAD CAME OUT CHEST SWELLING AND ARMS PUMPING YES, BUT FROM WHAT WE READ WE HAVE NO INDICATION SUCH WAS GOING TO TAKE PLACE, NOR IF ADI WAS BEING AGGRESSIVE.

I have also been hit by cars, and got into fights, and had to put up with abuse off the bike due to being a cyclist, due to drivers opinions of us cyclists all being the same, with no regard for personal saftey or other road users, road tax and all that malarky, I also have had to protect my children from irresponsible cyclists and repair bikes damaged in car accidents, and put up with staff off work due to them carrying on amongst traffic.

I'll say two things in response to that:-

1. I'm mainly a car driver, these days.
2. In around 30 years of being a cyclist, the amount of damage I've done to vehicles: 0, the amount of times I've either been physically damaged (either me or my bike) by vehicles: around 5 times.

The amount of times I've been physically risked by cars when on a bike: countless - the amount of times I've physically risked cars when on a bike: 0.

Whatever you think about cyclists and drivers in general, cyclists get the worse end of the stick - and in general, have a lot more to worry about. i AM NOT DISAGREEING WITH THAT, BUT EVERY BAD CYCLIST OUT THERE WILLING TO TAKE A RISK TARS US ALL WITH THE SAME BRUSH IN MANY DRIVERS EYES, I DO NOT THINK ANY EXCUSES SHOULD BE MADE FOR EITHER PARTY.

I am not trying to address any imbalance nor make any ecxuse for him getting beat up

Yes you are - you keep talking about the car drivers being harassed and provoked. I suggest you reread what you post on the matter. NO I DO NOT MEAN TO IMPLY SUCH, BUT DO LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT ADI'S STORY IS WELL BALANCED IN HIS FAVOUR AND THERE ARE CLEAR ACTIONS HE TOOK WHICH WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER AVOIDED THAT ARE BEING GLOSSED OVER.

merely pointing out that hitting cars

To which all we know from what's been written is that there was no damage. NO, ONLY ACCORDING TO ADI, ADI ALSO STATES MANY INSTANCES WHERE IT COULD ALL HAVE BEEN AVOIDED WHICH ARE REPEATEDLY GLOSSED OVER AND JUST ABOUT ALL OF THIS THREAD IS BADLY READ OPINION.

and running away did not help, and may have only aggravated the situation

Clearly his mistake once realising he had to escape (after, I might add, being chased dangerously by a car) was not escaping. MAY I ADD THERE IS NO EVIDENCE OF DANGEROUS DRIVING, ONLY HEARSAY, AND FROM WHAT I GATHER SHE MAY HAVE INITIALLY FOLLOWED HIM TO ONLY COMPLAIN. AND WHEN HE SAW SHE WAS NOT HAPPY, HE DECIDED TO EVADE HER.

you cannot justify hitting a car mirror in the manner Adi did

To which all we can know from what's been posted, is that no damage occurred. AND AGAIN ONLY HEARSAY, DAMAGE OR NOT THE WOMAN HAD THE RIGHT TO BE UNHAPPY, ADI COULD HAVE HAD THE COURTESY TO LET HER HAVE HER SAY.

any more than a car driver can justify driving a cyclist off their bike and into the gutter due to oncomming traffic

What utter, utter rubbish. AND THAT IS YOU CLEARY SEEING DIFFERENT RULES FOR DIFFERENT PEOPLE, AND TAKING THIS LITERALY, THE FACT IS CYCLISTS SHOULD BE RESPONSABLE, DRIVERS SHOULD BE RESPONSABLE, I AM NOT WANTING TO DEFEND DODGY BEHAVOUR BY A CAR DRIVER OR PASSANGER, BUT I AM CLEARLY NOT GOING TO SWEEP THE SAME SORT OF BEHAVOUR BY A CYCLIST UNDER THE CARPET.

How you can equate contact with property - which in the example we're given there was apparently no damage - with physically barging a cyclist into a gap where they may well suffer physical harm, I don't know. As I said earlier, and I'm now convinced - you're delusional. NO, YOU ARE CLEARLY NOT SEEING EYE TO EYE, YOU ARE CLEARLY IMPLYING THAT IT'S OK AND ACCEPTABLE FOR A CYCLIST TO CAUSE CONTACT WHICH MAY PUT HIM AT PHYSICAL HARM OR DAMAGE PROPERTY, WHERE I AM SHOWING THAT THE OPINION YOU HAVE IS IN A ROLE REVERSAL IT IS DIFFERENT. SO ITS OK FOR A BIKE TO TAKE A RISK AND RIDE BETWEEN TWO CARS WITH A NARROW GAP, CAUSE ITS A BIKE, BUT NOT OK FOR A CAR TO DRIVE BETWEEN TWO BIKES. SORRY BUT BOTH ACTS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE, AND NEITHER ECUSABLE, AND YOUR STATEMENT ON MY QUOTING SUCH INFERS THAT YOU HAVE THE WRONG OPINION. hYPOCRISY AND DOUBLE STANDARDS TUT TUT.

that point is nothing to do with excusing violence or such

Yes, yes it does, because in your inept and disturbing, repeated willingness to mitigate their actions, you do exactly that. SORRY BUT YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAS THE DISTURBING OPINION THAT A BIKE CAN DO WHAT IT WANTS, WITH WHAT SEEMS LIKE A BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS INABILITY TO READ BETWEEN LINES AS YOU CLEARLY HAVE CHOSEN ONE RISK AS ACCEPTABLE AND ONE STORY AS PLAUSIBLE, YOU STATE IT OK TO HIT WOMEN AND BEHAVE IN A DEFENSIVE AND AGGERSIVE MANNER AFTER INSIGHTING RECKLESS BEHAVOUR. ADI HAD NO EXCUSE TO TAKE THE ACTION HE DID, AND IT ESCALATED DUE TO HIS OWN ATTITUDE. THE DRIVER HAD NO NEED TO ECALATE THE SITUATION WITH HER CHOICES AND ATTITUDE, THE PASSINGER MAY NEVER HAD GOT INVOLLVED UNDER DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES AND DID NOT HAVE TO TAKE THE ACTIONS HE DID, JUST AS YOU DO NOT HAVE TO ESCALATE THIS THREAD WITH INSINUATION AND AS MUCH GUESS WORK AS I DO OVER A STORY WHICH CLEARLY SHOWS BOTH PARTIES MAKING BAD CHOICES AND AFFECTING THE OUTCOME IN A DISASTROUS MANNER, AS USUAL THE BIKE SUFFERS...

just plain opinion on cycling attitude, being assualted does not make it OK to disregard the drivers opinion of their car being bumped by a cyclist

What a decidely odd reversal of the damage. WHY? IS IT HARD TO DIFFERENTIATE OPINION AND ACCEPT THE COMPLETE AS FABLE, CLEARLY MOST OF US KNOW WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN IN MOST PLOTS, SOME CLEARLY DON'T SEE SUCH PLAYING.

Their opinion, and their ability to brandish it doesn't give them wanton acceptance on chasing people dangerously, or mitigation for provocation when somebody repeatedly tries to evade such unhinged people. iT WAS MY OPINION IN QUESTION, BUT DUE TO YOUR SHORT SIGHTEDNESS YOU SEEM TO HAVE INFERED MY DEFENCE OF SOMETHING I HAVE NO INTEREST IN DEFENDING UNLESS MAYBE AS A SORT OF WHO KNOWS WHAT OPINION AND AGAINS ARROGANCE BIASED ON PERONAL BELIEF OR DEFENCEIVE NATURE.

What about risk to other road users at the time? BEING A TWAT ON A BIKE PUTS OTHERS AT RISK AS DOES BEING A TWAT IN A CAR, SUPPORTING TWATS WHO CYCLE IN SUCH MANNER AND SHOWING OPINION OF CAR DRIVERS AS TWATS ALSO HAS A CERATIN ELEMENT OF RISK, THERE WILL NO DOUBT BE SOME LAUGHING AT THIS THREAD AND SOME YOUNGER ONES SAYING GO ON EFFIN CARS OR GO ONE EFFIN BIKES OR GO ON EFFIN FORUM IDIOTS.

Do by all means whine about it on a forum where many irresposible cyclists may be, who may also agree with you and not see anything wrong with hitting "bloody cars".

Why are you so ready to pre-judge cyclists, here, as being irresponsible? i AM NOT! I AM GETTING INTO A DEBATE AND IT SEEMS MORE INTERESTED IN NOT AGREEING WITH SOMETHING? YOU JUDGED ME SO STOP BEING A HYPOCRIT!

I've never encountered any damage to the cars I own, from cyclists. But plenty of dings and scrapes in car parks (plus a tow-bar ball through a headlamp) from car drivers. RIGHT SO THAT MAKES IT OK, PATHETIC.

I'm saying whatever he did wrong - and I'm not excusing that - wasn't justification or mitigation to the violence he enountered.

(I agree)

So if it wasn't justification or mitigation, why do you keep on talking about provocation, about being harassed, provoked, antagonised? WHY DO YOU GET ALL DEFENSIVE, CLEARLY ADI ACTED AND HIS BEHAVOUR GOT HIM INTO THE SITUATION, WHY DEFEND SUCH? BECAUSE IT SEEMS TO MAKE IT OK FOR DRIVERS TO DO SUCH? I DO NOT MAKE THAT CONNECTION YET YOU THINK ME DISTURBED? INTERESTING.

If it was completely unacceptable, what place does such mitigation and contextualising have - except to partially defend? YET IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DEEMED ACCEPTABLE TO DEFEND ONE OPINION, ONE WRONG OVER ANOTHER. ASSUMPTION BUT I GUESS THAT IS THE EASY PART, MINOR IS ACCEPTABLE AS IT IS ONLY A CAR, WHEN IN CONTEXT IT IS WHAT A MINOR INCEDENT CAN CAUSE WHICH IS WHAT HAPPENED.

I wonder if the ball had been on the foot and Adi had got the better of her boyfriend if there would have been a lot of "good one Adi" type comment?

Do you mean if he'd successully defended himself by somebody assaulting and attacking him? NO, I MEAN IF ADI HAD BATTERED THE WOMAN, OR HIT A MAN WHO CAME OUT TO SPLIT THE TWO OF THEM UP, OR IF ADI HAD BEEN GIVEN VERBAL ABUSE FOR HITTING THE CAR, AND HAD SHOWN THEM BY BOOTING THE CAR. AS CLEARLY YOU HAVE DISTURBINGLY SHOWN YOU THINK THERE ARE EXCUSES TO HIT A WOMAN, AND THAT YOU CLEARLY DID NOT GRASP THE INITIAL RESPONSE OF THE PASSENGER.

I still think some cyclists seem to think it OK to hit a car, however softly, and ride on.

That's your choice and belief, but my experience has shown my car is a lot more at risk from other car drivers, than cyclists - perhaps others can contribute their experience on the matter. WHAT HAS THAT GOT TO DO WITH IT? AGAIN SHOWING YOUSELF FOR WHO YOU ARE AND CONCLUDING SOMETING FOR WHAT IT'S NOT! MY POINT IS THAT IT WOULD SEEM SOME SEE NO HARM IN CYCLING IN A MANNER THAT MAY CAUSE DAMAGE TO PROPERTY, WHICH IN MY OPINION CAN BE LIKENED TO WALKING AROUND THROWING STONES, ITS A GENERALISATION, INTENDED TO IMPLY IT MAY NOT BE NICE TO HAVE SOMETHING DAMAGED DUE TO SOMEONE ELSE BEING INCONSIDERATE, PROBABLY EVEN MORE UNPLEASANT IF SOMEONE IS DAMAGING YOUR PROPERTY AND GETS UPITY WITH YOU AND DISAGREES WITH YOU FINDING DISPLEASURE IN IT, EXAMPLE, PLEASE STOP WRITING ON MY WALLPAPER, BEING MET WITH WHY? IT'S NOT DOING ANYONE ANY HARM? TUT TUT

I'd say - given the sheer numbers, and what I see outside my windscreen every day - there's a lot more car drivers willing to play inconsiderate or arrogant, that cyclists. AND I GUESS THAT MAKES IT OK FOR A CYCLIST TO DO IT!

If it was a police car, I am sure many would not have taken the action Adi took, I am also sure the police would have something to say if a cyclist bumped their mirror in the same situation.

And what do you think the Police would have done about the car drivers, were they there? And what do you think would have happened if it was a police cyclist that made contact with their mirror (and also didn't damage it)? FACT, THEY WOULD HAVE HONKED THIER HORN, AND THE CAR WOULD HAVE MOVED, I DON'T SEE ANY MENTION OF CAR DRIVERS BEING FRUSTRATED AND FOLLOWING ADI'S LEAD? NOR OF ANY HORN HONKING? AS FOR A POLICE CYCLIST, THE ONES I HAVE SEEN SEEM TO BE PRETTY WELL BEHAVED ON ROAD.

NONE of my opinion or what I say makes it OK to get hit by people.

Oh no, you're just foolish enough to try and mitigate it by repeatedly talking about provocation. BLAH BLAH BLAH, DON'T THINK SO

BUT none of what anyone says in defence makes it OK for a cyclsit to behave in such a manner either.

What? Make a mistake? WHY WAS IT A MISTAKE, IT WAS A CONCEOUS DECISSION, HE JUDGED A RISK AND TOOK IT, IT WAS IMPROPER TO DECIDE SUCH WHEN ANOTHERS PROPERTY IS AT RISK. i BET IF THE MIRROR HAD BEEN BROKEN AND TEH CAR EMPTY HE WOULD STILL NOT HAVE STOPPED, BUT REMEMBER THAT IS ONLY AN OPINION WHCH I MAY ONLY BE SAYING IN HASTE, SO ITS PROBABLY OK EH

Car drivers do it all the time, why are you so ready to simply judge cyclists like this? wHY DO YOU KEEP IMPLYING IT OK FOR CYCLISTS TO DO SUCH AS CAR DRIVERS DO IT ALL THE TIME? IT DOES NOT MAKE EITHER PARTY CORRECT,NOR DOES IT EXCUSE SUCH BEHAVOUR.

People overreact, this thread is an example, look at my posts and the responses given back. We have a classic example of the sort of thing cyclists complain of car drivers doing being, with an incident many a car driver complains about cyclists doing.

Whether true, or otherwise, there's a remarkable gulf in physical risk, there. VERY TRUE, YET FROM HERE I CAN STILL JUDGE ME AT MORE OF A RISK, AS YOU SEEM TO INFER MORE NAME CALLING AND GENERALISATION, WHEREAS i AM BEING A NUMPTY. HENCE I WOULD NOT MEET UP WITH YOU IN A PUB TO DISCUSS THIS AS CLEARLY YOU OPINION IS SO STRONG AND MY OPINION SO ABRASIVE YOU WOULD PROBABLY WANT TO PUNCH ME.

Contact without damage, is rather trivial in comparison to physical injury.

What a pile of rubbish Neil, cannard blah blah blah, glossing over and such such..... lots of hot air... my own could fill a few balloons..

Quite simply such is the way of the world, Adi hit the wrong mirror on the wrong car at the wrong time, IF he had not ridden into that mirror the following chain of events would not have happened, quite simply no sorrow no excuses, you ride like a twat eventually some twat may twat you....

Adi did hit the car not the other way around, and I am unsure but seem to remember him not waiting for eye to eye contact and a verbal response at the incident, he rode away.. AND SORRY BUT THIS IS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENS LATER< NOR EXCUSES FOR ANYONE NOR GLOSSING OVER WHAT HAPPENED TO ADI.

Regardless of the after events, it does not matter if he was headbutted or kissed, if it were knifes or flowers that were being thrown...

WHAT IS BLATANTLY OBVIOUS IS THAT RIDING BETWEEN CARS AND HITTING THEM IS IRRESPONSIBLE. Any other right and wrong after that fact is circumstantial and a seperate matter to my initial opinion of the initial matter.

Don't bother making excuses or any other tripe up, the above point was my initial basic point, cyclists should exersise some care and respect when on roads, just as car drivers should, just as cyclists should not attack car drivers, and car drivers should not attack cyclists, everyone should be nice etc etc

Hitting a car mirror, regardless of 100 wrong doings, or the car driver going in an opposite direction and having never confronted Adi, or even with two empty cars, the fact is that there is no valid reason for someone on a bicycle to take a narrow gap between two cars due to them being in his way.

AND AGAIN, this is not having a go at anyone, nor am I making exuces for the actions carried out.

Though then again, lets not gloss over the point that riding a bicycle recklessly in and out of traffic is not my cup of tea, nor do many car drivers appreciate such behavour, I do wonder if the thread would have had any relevance or anyone would have had an opinion if the violence had not happened...


Adi says, I saw two stationary cars and decided to go between them, but guess what guys I hit the mirror on one of them.... the driver didn't look happy though, but I had places to be so left..... that was it.

Responce........... ???

I quite simply doubt anyone would have stated anything about cycling in such a manner, after all it was all glossed over with the fact that some bloody car driver had parked in his way, and became a snarling bitch after her mirror was clipped. And this and that and blah blah blah...

Well sorry but the first thing that was wrong was the mirror getting clipped, lets not gloss that over because of what happened afterward.

I would not have liked to have been on teh recieving end of what Adi got, but at the same time i do not think I would have responded as he did, nor that all occurences were not outwith his control or blameless....

I mean come off it..... hitting cars...pushing wimmen.....threatening to phone the police in front of a big guy who broke your glasses after you fighting with his burd!!! WHILE he is walking away with the "crazy" woman ......

AND any pictures of the damaged bike

 

[GoldenEraMTB]

 

[gibbleking]

lock this thread mods......please.please please please.....

 

[john]

I think everyone who fancies it has had a say so will lock this for the moment.

If the original poster has anything he wishes to add like pics of the smashed bike or Police action drop me a PM and you can add it in.


LOCKED