Long term unemployed to be asked to give back something

[marin man]

Perhaps the people your wife describes have some other source of income?

I was surprised nobody had mentioned drug dealers yet....

and people who run a business on ebay on the side of their benefits,and the car boot dealers who earn a fortune buying at auction...and then sign on as well :x

 

[sgw]

further foot note...where i live most of the people i see on the street are jobless....some are driving newer cars then me with no visible means of income yet seem to afford new cars...,,

Do you think you might be confusing criminals with the unemployed?

some don't bother getting dressed at all but spend the day leaning against the gate yakking to the next door dealers/friends ect....some just sit on the doorstep all day long in summer...on one occasion i left for work and they were sitting on the doorstep at 8 in the morning...when i came back at the end of the day they were still sitting there...thats what gets my goat...

I am sure you would agree that such a pointless dead end lifestyle is nothing to be envied. The question is why do people allow themselves to be reduced to such a level? The easy explanation that it is simply down to laziness and over generous benefits just avoids the real issues.

the only solution really is to alter the whole system of government ..not just a part ,,

100% agree with you there. http://www.afed.org.uk/ace/ap_index.html

 

[sgw]

and people who run a business on ebay on the side of their benefits,and the car boot dealers who earn a fortune buying at auction...and then sign on as well :x

Shouldn't the target be criminals then and not the unemployed as a whole?

There are criminals in all sections of society, we don't condem everyone else because of them.

 

[marin man]

Do you think you might be confusing criminals with the unemployed?

Scope for a witty reply there must.....resist.....temp...tation

The people who sit around all day are probably just doing what their parents etc.did :roll:

They are quite happy to sit about and claim money while their other halfs are out cleaning windows,doing carboots or robbing people etc

This info is factual before you start whining as I know where poor gibble lives.

 

[rosstheboss]

Who has a 160 inch plasma screen, certainly not any unemployed I know,so I can only guess that is also a part of sensationalist crap highlighted by a corporate media, a case of one might, so it stands all must more brainwashing no doubt.

My wife works for the council as an outreach worker - pretty much every family on benefits she goes to see has

a)a plasma screen tv
b)ps3/xbox360/wii delete as applicable
c)full ashtrays
d)take away menus everywhere

It's not sensationalism, it's the truth! Don't ask me how they pay for it all, but if nothing else there's always money for fags!!!

Please reread this as you obviously missed it the first time: "pretty much every family on benefits she goes to see has..."

That says 'pretty much every family on benefits she goes to see has...'

not

'pretty much every family on benefits has...'

Spot the difference!

Fact vs made up on the spot!

Yes, maybe some of these people do have extra sources of income like drug dealing, or just plain old benefits fraud, or receiving stolen goods, maybe just maybe they might be, dare I say, dishonest?

Maybe they got lucky in the lottery or from previous employment? Who knows?!?

I was merely commenting on what my wife has observed in her capacity as a professional. Nothing more nothing less, which you seem to have jumped on, and tried to disprove, although you can't, as it's true!!!!

I'm sure it's crap being unemployed, it's been a long time since I haven't had a job, but is there really nothing to do where you live? I'm talking about going into pubs at 5pm and asking tradesmen if they need any help or turning up at building sites and asking there... You may be surprised

 

[sgw]

Please reread this as you obviously missed it the first time: "pretty much every family on benefits she goes to see has..."

That says 'pretty much every family on benefits she goes to see has...'

not

'pretty much every family on benefits has...'

Spot the difference!

Fact vs made up on the spot!

Yes, maybe some of these people do have extra sources of income like drug dealing, or just plain old benefits fraud, or receiving stolen goods, maybe just maybe they might be, dare I say, dishonest?

Maybe they got lucky in the lottery or from previous employment? Who knows?!?

I was merely commenting on what my wife has observed in her capacity as a professional. Nothing more nothing less, which you seem to have jumped on, and tried to disprove, although you can't, as it's true!!!!

I really think this is being blown out of proportion.

Not speaking for silverclaws but I understood what you said the first time. I did not accuse anyone of lying and haven't "jumped" on anything, I simply questioned the validity of your wifes description being used to influence opinions about the vast majority of claimants. I would suggest that if people are achieving an apparently affluent lifestyle, they are not doing it on legitimate benefits alone. If they are involved in criminal activities, they should be attacked as such and not used as a brush to tar millions of decent people who have been thrown on the scrapheap.

I'm sure it's crap being unemployed, it's been a long time since I haven't had a job, but is there really nothing to do where you live? I'm talking about going into pubs at 5pm and asking tradesmen if they need any help or turning up at building sites and asking there...

Yes it is crap to be unemployed! I can't though deny that there are some jobs available in my area that I could get if I was willing to. I could get a job in a call centre harassing people with small debts and no means of paying them, or using sophisticated sales techniques to sell stair lifts to old people who don't need them. But unemployed though I am, I still have some standards.

Your suggestions about how to find a job may be well intentioned but not likely to be effective I fear. They also fail to address the point that even if I personally find a job, that doesn't alter the fact that we have a shortfall of jobs available. There has to be a couple of million (and rising) unemployed because of our current economic situation. The unemployed do not create unemployment. We are not criminals or an inferior class of people to be starved into slavery. We are simply workers who's labour is not currently required.

 

[Charlieboy28]

oooh my goodness, whats going on here then, first time i have ventured near these parts,

ah well my tuppence worth

as a social worker i do not doubt the existance of families for whom claiming benefits is a lifestyle, third and fourth generations of families that have never worked, for whom it has become normalised to claim benefits, entire areas and communities that do not understand the welfare deal, i.e help when needed, to take from a system at a time of need based on an understanding that it will be given back via taxes when circumstances change. however it is my view that they see it as an entitlement, i have no issue with welfare,im happy to pay for the sick, the disabled,happy to pay for the education of others etc, pay for those out of work and looking, and proud of the welfare state,but i really do not understand why i should have to pay for a fit and healthy individual to be paid, housing council and job seekers benefits because they do not wish to work, they know and play the sytem, and do everything they can to make themsleves uneployable.
a noble system of welfare was created ,but it was ripe for abuse and needed to be changed.
There is plenty in communities that need to be done, it is not unpaid, surely these people have taken enough out and need to give something back,if it flushes out those signing and working good, if it inspires some people to think feck this if im gonna have to work then i will get a job then good, if it helps identify the truly needy and vulnerable who need extra support in getting a job or other help then good.
Welfare to work is not about shafting the honest man fallen on hard times

 

[KeepItSteel]

oooh my goodness, whats going on here then, first time i have ventured near these parts,

ah well my tuppence worth

as a social worker i do not doubt the existance of families for whom claiming benefits is a lifestyle, third and fourth generations of families that have never worked, for whom it has become normalised to claim benefits, entire areas and communities that do not understand the welfare deal, i.e help when needed, to take from a system at a time of need based on an understanding that it will be given back via taxes when circumstances change. however it is my view that they see it as an entitlement, i have no issue with welfare,im happy to pay for the sick, the disabled,happy to pay for the education of others etc, pay for those out of work and looking, and proud of the welfare state,but i really do not understand why i should have to pay for a fit and healthy individual to be paid, housing council and job seekers benefits because they do not wish to work, they know and play the sytem, and do everything they can to make themsleves uneployable.
a noble system of welfare was created ,but it was ripe for abuse and needed to be changed.
There is plenty in communities that need to be done, it is not unpaid, surely these people have taken enough out and need to give something back,if it flushes out those signing and working good, if it inspires some people to think feck this if im gonna have to work then i will get a job then good, if it helps identify the truly needy and vulnerable who need extra support in getting a job or other help then good.
Welfare to work is not about shafting the honest man fallen on hard times

Amen.
Your comment is like a ray of sensible sunshine.

 

[silverclaws]

.
.....................Welfare to work is not about shafting the honest man fallen on hard times

No, but I daresay it will end up doing so as the mechanism or rather the not so delicate instrument of government isn't exactly accurate or intelligent and it is that that people fear, myself included.

Such situations are made more palpable by the wordage used by those in power who demonstrate they fail to understand exactly what is happening beyond a bunch of low lives are ripping off the system, they lump all in the same basket.

But one thing is certain about their plans, they will make enemies and enemies transpires as votes against them, even those who before had no leaning could be persuaded to vote the lesser of all evils.

 

[dbmtb]

The real challenge though - is how do you do what's right by the honest man fallen on hard times, without making a system that is ripe for exploitation by the less-than-scrupulous?

Would such a system even be cost-effective?

If there was an easy answer, I'm sure it would have been put into practice years ago.