Long term unemployed to be asked to give back something

[dbmtb]

Took a while to find one that allowed direct linking....

And it's "doesn't" not "does'nt". See you in school.

 

[marin man]

Worth the wait though

 

[grahame]

One thing you will discover about people those that waver in their beliefs are people that don't really believe in what they say in the first place, with many they say what they are trained to say before they analyse their own words. I do not waver as I do have some experience and hope to communicate some of the reality beyond government spin and media sensationalism.

Another way of describing people who are able to change their beliefs is adaptable, empathetic.

What is the point of the conversation if you have a fixed position?

Saying your beliefs are not flexible because you have some experience is to say you think your experience and knowledge is greater than those you are talking to.

To suggest you can take knowledge of part of the world around you and apply it, without a large degree of adaption, to the rest of the world is to close your mind. Quite lazy.

One thing I am sure of, and have seen over and over again, is that those who refuse to take on the opposing argument for fear of weakening their own, and those who consider every conversation as their opportunity to educate others rather than themselves, rarely have a positive message to impart.

One other thing I have observed is that the more time you spend amongst an irrelevance of conspiracy theorists, the more you realise most think they are onto something no one else has the intelligence to assimilate.

They are all desperate to educate the ignorant mass, yet their approach alienates.

Or another way to put it, those whose beliefs never change probably do not have a scientific view. Even the economists recognise this. ie

When my information changes, I change my opinion. What do you do, Sir?

 

[silverclaws]

I was referring to sgw as he seems to have a ridiculous view point and pushes it onto everybody else :roll:

We know that you have issues and as such are not commenting about you.

Then I am mistaken and to you I apologise, but I hope you will understand my error when it is your reference to the communes that was my indication that you were talking about myself as I had mentioned my interest in those.

 

[sgw]

We know that you have issues and as such are not commenting about you.

We all have 'issues', no need for kid gloves.

I haven't...

apparently.

 

[silverclaws]

One thing you will discover about people those that waver in their beliefs are people that don't really believe in what they say in the first place, with many they say what they are trained to say before they analyse their own words. I do not waver as I do have some experience and hope to communicate some of the reality beyond government spin and media sensationalism.

Another way of describing people who are able to change their beliefs is adaptable, empathetic.

What is the point of the conversation if you have a fixed position?

Saying your beliefs are not flexible because you have some experience is to say you think your experience and knowledge is greater than those you are talking to.

To suggest you can take knowledge of part of the world around you and apply it, without a large degree of adaption, to the rest of the world is to close your mind. Quite lazy.

One thing I am sure of, and have seen over and over again, is that those who refuse to take on the opposing argument for fear of weakening their own, and those who consider every conversation as their opportunity to educate others rather than themselves, rarely have a positive message to impart.

One other thing I have observed is that the more time you spend amongst an irrelevance of conspiracy theorists, the more you realise most think they are onto something no one else has the intelligence to assimilate.

They are all desperate to educate the ignorant mass, yet their approach alienates.

I have a fixed position regarding the topic of this conversation, this asking the unemployed to give something back for it is to say the least insulting and abusive to those at the bottom of the ladder who in reality don't want to be there but have no option due to popular thought of as inconsequential difficulties akin to Mary Antoinette eyes that keeps a person in the uninspiring poverty trap. No hope, no aspiration no way further forward may as well get comfortable and adapt to the situation in hand.

I will modify my understanding when it is I perceive the powers that be have changed their approach from one of condescending abuse to actually taking note of what the people at the bottom say and acting positively on that information, not the negativity proferred by newspapers and the resultant public education.

But why pick a sector of society to abuse, why the need, is it just because we want something harmless to be the whipping boy for our angers, bankers fight back by ignoring and abusing, the unemployed, what can they do, nothing except take the abuse for finding themselves in the situation they are in.

But if the intended desire of these questionable methods is to inspire people to seek work, do you not think it could be better achieved by raising a person's expectations rather than crushing them even further.

The unemployed, the government know what trades are lost in there but what can they offer when the market does not require those trades or the substandard and degrading retraining programmes are not worth the ability that lies dormant in this country, for the money spent on such organisations is a waste of money, but then one gets what one pays for.

But it is my personal observation that many of the unemployed I know are very creative individuals, they hold few if any educational certificates, but none the less they are highly skilled in their own area of interest, so it is my belief that it is not just the market forces that are responsible for the unemployed, but an education system that targets only those that think a certain way. But one may say what is the point of creative people with artistic tendancies and such in a world that demands science and engineering, well look back, who were the signwriters, carpenters , blacksmiths, wheelrights, masons, thatchers and a whole host of other trades besides in the past, none other than those naturally skilled with hand and eye, the artistic inclined.

But if the artistic are ignored, well there is another thing with those kind of people and that is the artistic temperament and that holds it's own problems which when the talent is not chanelled into light a whole host of destructive nasties come to visit, many of them also draw parallels with the reported ills of the unemployed.




http://hymnographyunbound.blogspot.com/2009/08/artistic-temperament.html

 

[highlandsflyer]

But you have no democracy!

Rubbish. We have the degree of democracy afforded by our system.

Over half the seats in the country are "safe" for one party or other. That means that the electorate in those seats have no choice, no voice and no representation.

More rubbish. By definition these seats are actually getting more democracy than others.

Perhaps you need to study Wiki some more before posting...

The Victorian concept of a "work ethic" is a contrivance to dupe workers at the bottom of the heap into loyally and uncomplainingly producing more profit for the exploiters at the top.

More complete tosh.

The origins of the work ethic can be traced back through the centuries.

You really are just making all this up aren't you?

Supreme arrogance to talk as though you are educating anyone.

 

[marin man]

We all have 'issues', no need for kid gloves.

I haven't...

apparently.

Well.......maybe idleness

 

[gibbleking]

ive been to some of the countries that removed the democratic system we have and replaced it with a "fairer system........"
they are nasty souless prisons where the people have no voice and certainly would disappear during the night if they complained..we would joke with my neighbour(87 year old russian who escaped stalins workers paridise by walking 100s of miles on foot) about knocks on the door at night....


one of their steam trains went past at 30 mph while were parked up.gotta love the east germans...


trust me when i say this ...we are lucky to live here and if you had any experience of these failed states then your perspectives would be totally differant....



ps with shareholders the company couldnt exist as they are the ones putting money into the company...without them you have no wages.


also ...on my way to work today the guy across the road was on his laptop in the living room watching telly.that was 9 hours ago....hes still there ....he does this every day yet still seems able to go to the dole when it suits him..


as i may have said before the only problem in this country is that the right to vote and the act of voting seems to be alien to 60 percent of the eligable adults allowed to vote.why grumble about the oppressive nasties incharge if you fail to exersise your right to democratically remove them when you get the chance.

 

[marin man]

I have never seen the sensible side of you before tony quite impressed really :shock: