Long term unemployed to be asked to give back something

[dbmtb]

I would be happier if the government was drawn from a cross section of society, from the poorest to the richest so the government actually does represent the populace, not just the elite. I would also be happier if the politicians were made accountable for their policies, not the present hit and run type ideas.

Historically, it has been until very recently. Don't see how it can be done any other way than before. You can't have parliamentary quotas based on social class, gender, age and sexual orientation.

What's happened is that the electorate has dumbed itself down. The careerist demagogues have sneaked in the back door their PR people and Spin Docs held open while everyone was watching Big Brother and the Royal divorces instead of paying attention at the back.

Politicians ARE accountable for policies - it's just that voters forget to make it so when the next election comes around. But regardless of my own political orientation - it's fair to say that the Labour defeat last time was due to the electorate making the government accountable for what it perceived to be bad policies.

It's very easy to blame politicians - but someone had to vote the bastards in.

 

[mattbrown]

“If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.”

 

[sgw]

In that case, you need to vote for the local MP's whom best represent your ideals.

I don't understand the objection to insisting that able bodied people should have a work ethic instilled into them.

I think you should start with understanding democracy before you move onto more complex concepts such as "work ethic". Over half the seats in the country are "safe" for one party or other. That means that the electorate in those seats have no choice, no voice and no representation.

The Victorian concept of a "work ethic" is a contrivance to dupe workers at the bottom of the heap into loyally and uncomplainingly producing more profit for the exploiters at the top. This corrupt and immoral state will never instill anthing but contempt in me.

 

[KeepItSteel]

Thats a very, very warped way of looking at it.

'safe seats' are made to be lost, as they have frequently done before and will do again in the future.

Work is good for the soul and builds character, no pretty political chart will ever make me think otherwise.

As my son grows up he will learn to fend for himself and contribute to his society and more importantly his own family.
If thats an idealistic tired victorian ethos then so be it, heaven forbid I teach him to act 'new age' and resent people whom have worked hard to achieve thier place in the world.

I really think you need to learn to lighten up

 

[silverclaws]

In that case, you need to vote for the local MP's whom best represent your ideals.
And you'll need to convince the rest of the country to vote with you.

And yes, I think adults that have never worked and/or refuse to work, without genuine good reason should certainly be 'bullied' into working.

Taken to the 'nth' degree, if at once we all choose to live like them - where would we end up then?

I dont understand the objection to insisting that able bodied people should have a work ethic instilled into them.

Vote for the local politician to make my voice heard, I did and they are all quiet now whilst their leader goes through his transformation from yellow to blue.

As to 'genuine good reason', could that include , no hope, no inspiration, low paid dead end job going nowhere, the reality for many at the bottom who do what has to be done with no or little possibility of work progression .

Now if this country is still a historic stubborn country whose people dug their heels in and fought back in times of threat in the past, the same will happen again, those threatened will do the British thing if it comes across that they are being threatened, and a sector of society is being threatened, make no doubt about that. This new system is doomed to fail from the start for reasons already mentioned where families are concerned, i.e. the real target.

But the only thing that will get people moving is inspiration and hope not threats and bullying, but say the latter does work and the scrounger gets sent to work, what kind of worker will that person be, would you if you were an employer want to hire a person that is not working for anything other than maintaining their status of unemployed.

This lack of work ethic I believe is an illness a psychological problem just like depression where it may have actually stemmed from in the first place.

The unemployed on benefits, present status akin to public enemy number one, the politicians and media have enabled that, but when it is perceived everyone is against you because of your status in the poverty trap, what do you do accept the abuse and sink further into the mire of your status, fight back to defend your status or do the age old British thing of compromise, exist in the mire and look for every loophole that enables funds to aid one's existence, perhaps what has become a lifestyle.

Of the people at the bottom, they are not all uneducated thickos, they think and wonder just like everybody else and by virtue of their position in having a lot of free time to think, is it any wonder they predominantly share political views running along the ideals of socialism and anarchy. Maybe it is they that understand more about the 'British system', what it exists for and who does it serve than those whose mind is kept off the ball by believing all their work is going to give them a better future. I understand many who work are now beginning to see their work is in vain they are working their asses off and slowly sinking, the cracks are beginning to show.

 

[FMJ]

For all your rhetoric, you've yet to post one scrap of information as to what could possibly be considered a remotely viable alternative. It's all well and good that you have some grandiose ideal that the poor and destitute will rise up and seize control of the lucrative Lupin redistribution, but you've put no though into who's going to spend 12 hours a day actually growing the damned things.

 

[sgw]

Thats a very, very warped way of looking at it.

I would like to hear (but I won't hold my breath) why you think it's not only "warped" but "very, very" warped. Millions of people over hundreds of years have thought the same. Many of them far more intelligent than you or I. It might be a minority but it's a growing minority that will inevitably prevail. Capitalism is being increasingly exposed as the flawed and doomed system it is. To enthusiastically support the system which is currently destroying not only our communities but our very environment could reasonably be itself be described as warped, I will be kind and describe it as the result of indoctrination.

I really think you need to learn to lighten up

"Learn to lighten up"? What is the relevance of that to this thread? As it happens I have been out on the moors all afternoon Getting plastered in mud, falling in ditches and laughing like a child. Discussing the serious and complex subjects of politics and economics is a different thing altogether. No stress or anger here.

I think you should consider your own attitude and not be so judgemental about people you don't know.

Work is good for the soul and builds character

Ah, that old chestnut:-

"Arbeit macht frei"

You go ahead and fill your boots then, work as hard as you like.

 

[rosstheboss]

I think you should consider your own attitude and not be so judgemental about people you don't know.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You're funny!!!

 

[legrandefromage]

I think you should consider your own attitude and not be so judgemental about people you don't know.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You're funny!!!

boobies?

 

[sgw]

For all your rhetoric, you've yet to post one scrap of information as to what could possibly be considered a remotely viable alternative.

You haven't asked for any and if I did, I doubt you would bother to read it. But feel free to ask away.

It's all well and good that you have some grandiose ideal that the poor and destitute will rise up and seize control of the lucrative Lupin redistribution,

You misunderstand. It's not just "the poor and destitute" who need to rise up. It's everyone who realises the faults and injustice of a system based on greed and exploitation and wants to change it. The fact is that the majority of people who do realise this are not the poor or destitute. They come from a wide range of backgrounds from ordinary workers to middle class intellectuals. I suspect that the poor and destitute have more pressing things on their minds.

but you've put no though into who's going to spend 12 hours a day actually growing the damned things.

How do you know what thought I or anyone else has put into anything? As it happens:-

I would have thought it obvious that the people who are growing the lupins are the ones who will take control, They would manage and work it on an equitable and democratic basis. Without shareholders creaming of the profits of their labour, they could either keep a greater proportion of the wealth they create or work less hours.