I agree on the looks department, not pretty but they do offer so much. They've been on the go a while and I haven't heard of a single failure. Much trawling through forums finding out the gen on them. The undecal'd ones are £299 at the mo and don't look as bad as the decal'd ones, still no pretty mind! I reckon I could build a as new sub 25lb do it all bike for under a grand. Or go for the Bfe which is heavier but better residuals and kudos. Or just be happy with what I've got