What is a Mountain Bike?
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Just read the whole thread.
I'm riding a mountain bike = I'm watching a video.
Everybody knows what that/they mean, regardless of origin, brand, technology, specification.
The popular image is fixed. Even my lovely wife knows the difference between my road and mountain bikes.
Most don't go further than that.
Throughout history similar technologies have been discovered in parallel with no possible communication between non-competing cultures. Perhaps this is another example. You all built Mountain Bikes.
I'm riding a mountain bike = I'm watching a video.
Everybody knows what that/they mean, regardless of origin, brand, technology, specification.
The popular image is fixed. Even my lovely wife knows the difference between my road and mountain bikes.
Most don't go further than that.
Throughout history similar technologies have been discovered in parallel with no possible communication between non-competing cultures. Perhaps this is another example. You all built Mountain Bikes.
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In 1970-80s California they had all the parts required to make a commercially viable off-road bicycle especially fat knobbly tyres that were not available elsewhere. More importantly they had the eyes of the world leisure industry watching out for the next trend that could follow on from windsurfing, skateboarding , BMX etc. Even though the early Ritchey framed bikes were very expensive, due to Californian affluence Fisher and Kelly were able to sell as many as they could make, thus proving there was a market. With just a little bit of marketing know how courtesy of Fisher, the word was out, the entrepreneurs moved in and far eastern component manufacturers raced to California in order to copy whatever they could.
Even back then pre-internet, there was a great deal of international communication. This was essential to the development of the US mountain bike as the lightweight frame-building and component culture, the wide ratio derailleur gear-chains and cantilever brakes all came from Europe. It's even possible that the original Ritchey design owes something to the English roughstuff bike that Tom Ritchey made for John Finley-Scott a year or so before he designed his first Mountain bike.
Meanwhile in Britain, off-road bicycles were seen in a very different light. They were cheap, often homemade, for kids & teenagers, and had been around for the best part of thirty years without very much money being made from them.
Around 1983, Raleigh was caught between following the latest trend coming out of California or following their instinct that there was no long term market for such bicycles. In the end they decided that Mountain Biking was going to be a short lived fad and so they would not manufacture them in Britain. Thus opening up the UK market to those who better understood the potential of the US mountain bikes in the form of Ridgeback, Saracen, Dawes, & Muddy Fox Specialized etc, etc.
But the commercial success of the US mountain bikes doesn't mean that other earlier traditions of off-road cycling should not be recorded by history.
I agree that bikes have been modified for off road use at various times and in various countries around the world. Sometimes this has been done for practical reasons and sometimes for fun or for sport.The History Man":epf7vnig said:
In 1970-80s California they had all the parts required to make a commercially viable off-road bicycle especially fat knobbly tyres that were not available elsewhere. More importantly they had the eyes of the world leisure industry watching out for the next trend that could follow on from windsurfing, skateboarding , BMX etc. Even though the early Ritchey framed bikes were very expensive, due to Californian affluence Fisher and Kelly were able to sell as many as they could make, thus proving there was a market. With just a little bit of marketing know how courtesy of Fisher, the word was out, the entrepreneurs moved in and far eastern component manufacturers raced to California in order to copy whatever they could.
Even back then pre-internet, there was a great deal of international communication. This was essential to the development of the US mountain bike as the lightweight frame-building and component culture, the wide ratio derailleur gear-chains and cantilever brakes all came from Europe. It's even possible that the original Ritchey design owes something to the English roughstuff bike that Tom Ritchey made for John Finley-Scott a year or so before he designed his first Mountain bike.
Meanwhile in Britain, off-road bicycles were seen in a very different light. They were cheap, often homemade, for kids & teenagers, and had been around for the best part of thirty years without very much money being made from them.
Around 1983, Raleigh was caught between following the latest trend coming out of California or following their instinct that there was no long term market for such bicycles. In the end they decided that Mountain Biking was going to be a short lived fad and so they would not manufacture them in Britain. Thus opening up the UK market to those who better understood the potential of the US mountain bikes in the form of Ridgeback, Saracen, Dawes, & Muddy Fox Specialized etc, etc.
But the commercial success of the US mountain bikes doesn't mean that other earlier traditions of off-road cycling should not be recorded by history.
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I'm not sure how that Relates to my view you quoted.
Are you saying that somebody is in danger of being written out of popular history?
This also has been the case for centuries. Rosalind Franklin, Alfred Russell Wallace and Joseph Swan bear testament to this.
Are you saying that somebody is in danger of being written out of popular history?
This also has been the case for centuries. Rosalind Franklin, Alfred Russell Wallace and Joseph Swan bear testament to this.
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The History Man":3oczife6 said:
GrahamJohnWallace":3oczife6 said:
Not so much that someone is in danger of being written out of popular history, but in the case of 'Tracker' bikes that they never got written in, in the first place.The History Man":3oczife6 said:
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'Victors'. Hadn't noticed that before. Interesting use. Was it a race? Battle? Fight?
One minute you're talking about an exchange of ideas and then a victory. It's confusing. I think as I've said its all part of the same parallel fraternal if slightly different development. I'm not that well informed but have read a little around this.
One minute you're talking about an exchange of ideas and then a victory. It's confusing. I think as I've said its all part of the same parallel fraternal if slightly different development. I'm not that well informed but have read a little around this.
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An extreme example was Joe Breeze's successful campaign to induct the French VCCP into the Mountain Bike Hall of Fame. Even though the VCCP ceased to exist in 1956 and have no connection whatsoever with the US Mountain Bike, beyond creating a sport similar to mountain biking.
http://mmbhof.org/velo-cross-club-parisien-vccp/
On that basis the Cycle Speedway should also qualify.
The Roughstuff fellowship, Cyclocross and 'Tracker' bikes even more-so because they all have documented links to the early Marin scene.
The American historians give mixed messages in this regard, some seem to want to give the impression that everything originated in California in denial of the fact that many of the technologies used in mountain bikes originated in Europe. Whilst some of the US Pioneers like Joe Breeze, Gary Fisher, Charlie Kelly are more inclusive and openly acknowledge that the Mountain Bike was a collaborative venture with influences from many people not all of whom were American.mattr":3mb92n2u said:
An extreme example was Joe Breeze's successful campaign to induct the French VCCP into the Mountain Bike Hall of Fame. Even though the VCCP ceased to exist in 1956 and have no connection whatsoever with the US Mountain Bike, beyond creating a sport similar to mountain biking.
http://mmbhof.org/velo-cross-club-parisien-vccp/
On that basis the Cycle Speedway should also qualify.
The Roughstuff fellowship, Cyclocross and 'Tracker' bikes even more-so because they all have documented links to the early Marin scene.
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"History is written by the victors" is a quote attributed to Winston Churchill and frequently referred to by historians in order to explain why a version of events can take precedence over another equally valid interpretation. It is not only associated with races, battles, or fights but also with products and their commercial success. In this case the commercial domination of the US Mountain Bike.The History Man":2o43uul1 said:
