Same Old Politics Of Hate

[JohnH]

Ever heard "Running the world" by Jarvis? I have. And would never use that phrase about myself as a result.

I used to listen to 'political' songs when in my teens and twenties. I was in my thirties when the penny finally dropped and I realised just how wealthy people like Paul Weller, Jarvis Cocker, Matt Johnson and Billy Bragg actually are.

I now find it rather difficult to be told how tough life is by someone who's made hundreds of thousands of quid by sitting on their arse and playing a guitar.

Low taxes, pro business agenda, personal responsibility and minimal state intervention. That's how this country will progress. Or at least how it should.

Yes, look how well it's working out for America!

If it had been made clear to financial institutions in the United States that they had to take responsibility for their own bad decisions and that there would be no government intervention if any institutions got themselves into trouble, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

 

[barry2017]

If it had been made clear to financial institutions in the United States that they had to take responsibility for their own bad decisions and that there would be no government intervention if any institutions got themselves into trouble, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

Yes, the banks are part of the story, but it's hopelessly simplistic to say they're the only part.

I didn't see anyone complaining when they were lending out money to whoever asked.

 

[dbmtb]

I used to listen to 'political' songs when in my teens and twenties. I was in my thirties when the penny finally dropped and I realised just how wealthy people like Paul Weller, Jarvis Cocker, Matt Johnson and Billy Bragg actually are.

Which is all of course true.

However, I was merely commenting on the Jarvis line "some say that the cream rises to the top. I say, s..t floats" to explain why I would never refer to myself as cream rising to the top. No more, no less.

Really, I have no political agenda one way or the other (it's no better in Denmark, maybe worse). I despise party politics across the board. Capitalism pays my wages. Socialism educates my kids. There are pros and cons with both - and anyone dogmatic enough to tell you otherwise hasn't seen the whole picture.

Which is probably also a patronising thing to say, particularly as I have opted out of the system and into another one that won't let me vote in parliamentary elections until I change my nationality and therefore don't have to make difficult choices.

 

[JohnH]

If it had been made clear to financial institutions in the United States that they had to take responsibility for their own bad decisions and that there would be no government intervention if any institutions got themselves into trouble, we wouldn't be in the mess we're in today.

Yes, the banks are part of the story, but it's hopelessly simplistic to say they're the only part.

I didn't see anyone complaining when they were lending out money to whoever asked.

I didn't say that banks are the only part of the story. I said that if government had made it abundantly clear that it would not intervene in the event of a market crash, the banks might have thought twice about spending hundreds of millions of quid on job-lots of sub-prime mortgage bonds.

• Instead, Alastair Darling borrowed hundreds of billions of pounds to buy British banks and their staggering quantities of bad debt (IOUs which nobody will pay back).
• The banks were scared of lending to each other because they didn't know whether they would ever see their money again, so Darling printed billions of pounds and threw it at the banks to get the credit markets moving again (reducing the value of the pound and any savings or pensions that ordinary Brits might have accrued).
• Instead of using all of the money to lubricate the credit markets, banks like Barclays trousered billions of it to shore-up their own cash-strapped situation -- and to pay themselves bonuses.
• CEOs like Adam Applegarth or Fred Goodwin couldn't really stay in their well paid jobs after both of their banks had been bought by the taxpayer, so they were "punished" with early retirement. Applegarth allegedly gets £63,000 per month from his pension and Goodwin allegedly gets £61,000 per month.
• Labour doubled the national debt in the space of one parliament (4 years) and its current total of £4.8 trillion will have to be paid by the taxpayer, his children and by grandchildren who haven't even been born yet.
• The UK is currently paying £120 million per day in interest on the debt.

 

[JohnH]

However, I was merely commenting on the Jarvis line "some say that the cream rises to the top. I say, s..t floats" to explain why I would never refer to myself as cream rising to the top. No more, no less.

Okay dbmtb, I understand now.

Capitalism pays my wages. Socialism educates my kids.

You send your kids to Cuba?!? :shock:

 

[sunrise]

haha! i wish i was educated in Cuba! tbf i think even setting foot thrre would be an education, havent they got the best health care system in the world? brills.

My two cents is that you can trace the current recession back to Thatcher and Reagan's deregularisation of banking in the 80s.

Gideon Osborne and Dave would have carried out these 'austerity' measures if they had needed to or not, it is obvious their election promises were empty and that they are using Labour's legacy of debt to push through draconian measures, which are unlikely to hurt other old Etonians...

 

[JohnH]

haha! i wish i was educated in Cuba! tbf i think even setting foot thrre would be an education, havent they got the best health care system in the world? brills.

I don't know about the best healthcare system in the world, but they do have networks of informers living amongst the people who report to the secret police if anyone dares to criticise the government...

My two cents is that you can trace the current recession back to Thatcher and Reagan's deregularisation of banking in the 80s.

That's true. Gordon Brown made sure that whatever regulation remained was rendered ineffective by taking the BoE's powers and dividing them between 3 institutions (BoE, FSA, Treasury) -- the so-called tri-partite regulatory regime. After that, there was no single institution in control in the event of an emergency.

Just one month before the Northern Rock crisis, the FSA privately warned the Treasury that NR only had enough money to stay solvent for "about four weeks". The treasury did nothing. Even as savers queued up to withdraw their savings, 3 days passed before the buck stopped anywhere and Alastair Darling issued a statement to say that the government (translation: "taxpayer") would underwrite all of the NR's deposits.

Brown was warned by Ken Clarke in 1997 or 1998 not to meddle with the organisation of financial regulation -- but giddy with power from a big election victory and arrogantly dismissive of any advice from a Conservative, a man with a PhD in history believed that he was a economic genius who knew how to rein in the financial markets.

How wrong he was.

Gideon Osborne and Dave would have carried out these 'austerity' measures if they had needed to or not, it is obvious their election promises were empty and that they are using Labour's legacy of debt to push through draconian measures, which are unlikely to hurt other old Etonians...

What's obvious sunrise, is that if someone doesn't re-connect the finances of this country to reality, we're going to end up in the same position as Greece or Ireland.

Removing tax relief from pension growth, printing money to bail out the banks, doubling the national deficit and paying £120 million per day in interest doesn't hurt old Etonians either.

But it does hurt ordinary people contributing to pensions, regular people who are trying to build their savings and public sector workers who are being axed because the country can't afford to keep them and pay debt interest at the same time.

Thanks, Labour. :roll:

 

[sunrise]

I don't know about the best healthcare system in the world, but they do have networks of informers living amongst the people who report to the secret police if anyone dares to criticise the government...

tbf no govt is perfect, what about the heavy handed police tactics used on teenagers and school pupils during demonstrations? demonstrations which started peacefully!

Brown was warned by Ken Clarke in 1997 or 1998 not to meddle with the organisation of financial regulation

I bet he actually said 'some types of financial regulation are worse than others'

we're going to end up in the same position as Greece or Ireland.

arent the chances of that pretty low? unless the domino effect of the euro actually happens, i thought our financial position was way better than ireland or greece's especially. Portugal's also! Italys too!

But it does hurt ordinary people contributing to pensions, regular people who are trying to build their savings and public sector workers who are being axed because the country can't afford to keep them and pay debt interest at the same time.

if it had to be it had to be, recessions come and go, I thought this recession had infact started with the Yom Kippur war? I would find it a lot easier to swallow if big businesses such as Tmobile, Tesco and others did not alledgedly evade paying the tax they should pay. the taxes from that would surely mean we could keep the libraries and specialist schools and EMA?

I just think the condems are condemning the ordinary folk.

(edit: dont want a libel case on my hands! :S)

 

[technodup]

i thought our financial position was way better than ireland or greece's especially. Portugal's also! Italys too!

Big deal. We, one of the supposed richest economies behind US, Germany etc are better off than second world basket cases like Greece and Portugal? Well done everyone.

if it had to be it had to be, recessions come and go,

Tell that to Gordon Brown- he abolished boom and bust remember?

I would find it a lot easier to swallow if big businesses such as Tmobile, Tesco and others did not evade paying the tax they should pay. the taxes from that would surely mean we could keep the libraries and specialist schools and EMA?

I'm not sure Tesco would like you accusing them of tax evasion. Tax avoidance on the other hand is something they have to do to get best value for their business and shareholders. It's also something we ALL do in one way or another, even if we don't realise it.

I never quite understood why we should pay people to go to school anyway.

 

[Neil G]

We're hanging on by a thread

I feel for people that have children growing up in the UK in the current climate, things are going to be very, very hard for them in the future.