Restoring to admire not ride.
- Thread starter Ductape
- Start date
Grockel":3gmt1omx said:
For me it's irrelevant that they are missing out on what the bike was meant for. If a person enjoys building, owning, collecting, finding MORE THAN THEY ENJOY RIDING THEM who are you or I to criticise/judge because we have a different point of view?
My natural habitat:
I like riding modern bikes as they are great to ride and are comfortable. My 40 year old body is not as forgiving and compliant as my 20 year old one. 'Head down, arse up' is a porn site I visit these days not a riding position I ever want to try again on a bike. Times change.
I like restoring old bikes because they are so much more interesting and rewarding than generic 'build by numbers' modern bikes. Do I hang them on the wall, no (except the garage wall obviously), do I spend hours looking at the things, yes. To me this hobby is about hunting down interesting old bikes in need of love, ones that have already had a life, and then meticulously making them look like new through research and patient sourcing of correct parts.
I have a couple of old bikes and several new bikes that I ride regularly but I also have countless others that I don't and never will. I'm no more apologetic than those people who so proudly display those 'retro-rider' tags in their profiles.
I like riding modern bikes as they are great to ride and are comfortable. My 40 year old body is not as forgiving and compliant as my 20 year old one. 'Head down, arse up' is a porn site I visit these days not a riding position I ever want to try again on a bike. Times change.
I like restoring old bikes because they are so much more interesting and rewarding than generic 'build by numbers' modern bikes. Do I hang them on the wall, no (except the garage wall obviously), do I spend hours looking at the things, yes. To me this hobby is about hunting down interesting old bikes in need of love, ones that have already had a life, and then meticulously making them look like new through research and patient sourcing of correct parts.
I have a couple of old bikes and several new bikes that I ride regularly but I also have countless others that I don't and never will. I'm no more apologetic than those people who so proudly display those 'retro-rider' tags in their profiles.
This same debate rages on car forums whenever the dreaded C-word (Concours) is mentioned. I usually fall on the side of 'It was made to be used, the manufacturer likely stashed a few minters away anyway'.
Just my opinion, but;
- I pity the man who spends all his cash assembling a concours-level Escort RS Turbo and then never has the balls, money or even desire to drive it. That is a genuine waste to me.
- I like looking at truly rare or exceptional cars in museums.
- I do not like looking at run-of-the-mill, 'my Dad had one of those when I was ten' cars in museums. At all.
- I LOVE seeing somebody turn up to a trackday in the car my Dad had when I was ten (1986 Ford Fiesta XR2), and thoroughly wringing its neck.
- I LOVE seeing those that can afford it pit their 20-million-pound Ferraris against Works Cobras, E-Types and all sorts at Goodwood and Laguna Seca every year. Watching Goodwood FoS & Revival, along with the TV series 'GT Racer' is living proof that the world's most valuable old cars are even more exciting when being driven as intended.
And so to bicycles;
- I acknowledge that a huge percentage of bicycles are custom-built and unique, and that the (often one-off) pecularities within many of them deserve preservation. I hope the world's custom frame builders save a few examples of their own work and innovation.
- I enjoy seeing old rare frames hanging up on bike shop walls, but only if there's a real story to tell - like the time I recently walked into NYC Velo and asked about the old careworn Fat Chance frame hung on the wall. The shop owner proceeded to tell me the whole Chris Chance / I.F. story, how involved some of their employees and friends were, and what Fat City Cycles meant to them. Great stuff, wonderful to see that old bike and learn something new.
- I don't enjoy seeing unsold mint rarities that have clearly been hoarded by a shop for the purposes of showing off 'unobtanium'. That's petty and rather vain.
When it comes to custom-built (by which I mean handmade-to-order) bikes, there is no right and wrong. It's your bike, for use as you see fit. Even if you're not the first owner, the bike was originally custom-built to the needs of somebody other than you, so now it's yours to re-imagine, whether you want to ride it or not.
When it comes to 'catalogue' builds (particularly of what could be referred to as off-the-peg bikes), you've either recreated it correct to spec, or you haven't. It's a 'Concours' effort.
If you don't intend to ride it, why upgrade the groupset or wheelset to some imaginary super-spec it was never sold with, unless it actually means something to you, perhaps related to bikes or components you had when you were younger?
If you're trying to impress others by showing them how many high-price/rare components you can throw onto one bike that you'll never ride, then I do think that's quite sad.
Equally, if you're trying to build the 'ultimate spec' dream machine that you couldn't possibly afford the first time around, then you absolutely owe it to yourself to ride the damn thing and let it put a huge grin on your face!
In the words of Andy 'Fyxomatosis' White...
Just my opinion, but;
- I pity the man who spends all his cash assembling a concours-level Escort RS Turbo and then never has the balls, money or even desire to drive it. That is a genuine waste to me.
- I like looking at truly rare or exceptional cars in museums.
- I do not like looking at run-of-the-mill, 'my Dad had one of those when I was ten' cars in museums. At all.
- I LOVE seeing somebody turn up to a trackday in the car my Dad had when I was ten (1986 Ford Fiesta XR2), and thoroughly wringing its neck.
- I LOVE seeing those that can afford it pit their 20-million-pound Ferraris against Works Cobras, E-Types and all sorts at Goodwood and Laguna Seca every year. Watching Goodwood FoS & Revival, along with the TV series 'GT Racer' is living proof that the world's most valuable old cars are even more exciting when being driven as intended.
And so to bicycles;
- I acknowledge that a huge percentage of bicycles are custom-built and unique, and that the (often one-off) pecularities within many of them deserve preservation. I hope the world's custom frame builders save a few examples of their own work and innovation.
- I enjoy seeing old rare frames hanging up on bike shop walls, but only if there's a real story to tell - like the time I recently walked into NYC Velo and asked about the old careworn Fat Chance frame hung on the wall. The shop owner proceeded to tell me the whole Chris Chance / I.F. story, how involved some of their employees and friends were, and what Fat City Cycles meant to them. Great stuff, wonderful to see that old bike and learn something new.
- I don't enjoy seeing unsold mint rarities that have clearly been hoarded by a shop for the purposes of showing off 'unobtanium'. That's petty and rather vain.
When it comes to custom-built (by which I mean handmade-to-order) bikes, there is no right and wrong. It's your bike, for use as you see fit. Even if you're not the first owner, the bike was originally custom-built to the needs of somebody other than you, so now it's yours to re-imagine, whether you want to ride it or not.
When it comes to 'catalogue' builds (particularly of what could be referred to as off-the-peg bikes), you've either recreated it correct to spec, or you haven't. It's a 'Concours' effort.
If you don't intend to ride it, why upgrade the groupset or wheelset to some imaginary super-spec it was never sold with, unless it actually means something to you, perhaps related to bikes or components you had when you were younger?
If you're trying to impress others by showing them how many high-price/rare components you can throw onto one bike that you'll never ride, then I do think that's quite sad.
Equally, if you're trying to build the 'ultimate spec' dream machine that you couldn't possibly afford the first time around, then you absolutely owe it to yourself to ride the damn thing and let it put a huge grin on your face!
In the words of Andy 'Fyxomatosis' White...
When I was a kid I was in to Dungeon and Dragons (Games Workshop type stuff). There were those that were in to building - so modifying figures, painting them and so on, and those that liked gaming (so taking a bunch of minatures and having epic battles with them). I was a builder - because I liked modelling, painting and then admiring.
Similarly my Dad is, and my Great Uncle used to be, exceptional classical guitar players - but play/ed in private - never to an audience. I've only heard my dad play once or twice over many years. It would be a valid argument to say what's the point? Music should be shared and heard.
However, really it's just down to what you like and enjoy as an individual - you can argue the point as far as you want either way but ultimately we're all indivudals and what floats one of our boats, sinks someone else's.
For my MTBs I love to build and tinker but I happen to love to ride more. But it takes all sorts, as they say.
Similarly my Dad is, and my Great Uncle used to be, exceptional classical guitar players - but play/ed in private - never to an audience. I've only heard my dad play once or twice over many years. It would be a valid argument to say what's the point? Music should be shared and heard.
However, really it's just down to what you like and enjoy as an individual - you can argue the point as far as you want either way but ultimately we're all indivudals and what floats one of our boats, sinks someone else's.
For my MTBs I love to build and tinker but I happen to love to ride more. But it takes all sorts, as they say.
My passion is taking dusty, dirty old crap and making it cool again. Not average bikes but real rare old racers. In the main my fun comes from the process, the build, the chase and the hunt not the riding. I'm not preserving anything for future generations, f*ck 'em they are young and pretty, I just do it for me!
Non-riders
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Riders(shock)
Before:
After:
Before (not too bad):
After:
Non-riders
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Before:
After:
Riders(shock)
Before:
After:
Before (not too bad):
After:
N/B":2quuvw1z said:
I couldn't agree more.
But, I still think there is plenty of room in this hobby for all interests.
As for 'Builds'; I'm afraid that exactly the way I see them, but who am I and what right do I have to judge how another person gets enjoyment from his or her bikes. I know we have at least one valued member here who's health prevents him from riding bikes, but who gets immense amounts of enjoyment from restoring bikes and parts to better than showroom condition, that's not my game, I spent too many years restoring and customising motorcycles to be bothered with that level of detail these days, but if it is the way another member enjoys their bikes, good for them.
A little tolerance of others interests would not go amiss at times.
As for older guys not riding hard.... woosies. I'm 53, shortly to be 54 and ride better / faster now than I did when I was 25. Mainly because I am riding MUCH better bikes.
Then there's the whole chestnut of built to ride but never has the time to ride all the bikes in the stable.....
None of my bikes were acquired to hang on walls - none are showroom condition and and they all come out occasionally - but my Gios for example hasn't seen tarmac for 2 years. (I would use it for an Eroica type event though)And The Dave Yates for 18 months.
But these days you only ever see me on my 3 Focus bikes as that's the main brand I sell - and occasionally one of the Paces, the De Rosa or the Look if I know the chances of me seeing anyone else to promote Focus to are slim - and the weather isn't going to do anything nasty.
So this means that I have about 10 garage queens. Or what?
None of my bikes were acquired to hang on walls - none are showroom condition and and they all come out occasionally - but my Gios for example hasn't seen tarmac for 2 years. (I would use it for an Eroica type event though)And The Dave Yates for 18 months.
But these days you only ever see me on my 3 Focus bikes as that's the main brand I sell - and occasionally one of the Paces, the De Rosa or the Look if I know the chances of me seeing anyone else to promote Focus to are slim - and the weather isn't going to do anything nasty.
So this means that I have about 10 garage queens. Or what?
I did hang it on the GQs a little hard in the Klein abuse thread...Since which I've certainly been thinking there has to be some room for static preservation in the sport.
I do think for the most part though I like to build things to ride them. Does that mean belting the hell out of them on gnarly trails 5 nights a week in the depths of winter? Of course not, a cruisey ride on some fun trails in summer though, quite probably.
I do think for the most part though I like to build things to ride them. Does that mean belting the hell out of them on gnarly trails 5 nights a week in the depths of winter? Of course not, a cruisey ride on some fun trails in summer though, quite probably.
