Is Retro faster?

[brocklanders023]

Re: Re:

I think you'll find at the top level it's about winning and nothing else. Riders and sponsors/teams will do whatever is needed to give them the best chance of getting round the race the fastest. You honestly think that if 20yr-old technology and bikes were faster they wouldn't be riding them!? These guys get the best and custom versions of everything.

Todays men's Commonwealth XC mountain biking; winning margin was 3 seconds over a 1.5 hour race. World Cup DH races are settled by a matter of seconds. That is the sharp end where every available advantage counts. Look at the majority of the bikes in the race today - carbon hardtail 29ers with hydraulic discs, the most advanced forks available, 1x11 drivetrains, tubeless, wide flat bars, etc.

Anyone who doubts how fast modern stuff is, go ride one of these. Yes, they may cost £3k (and the rest), but I promise you'll be shocked at just how fast they are. I rode a friend's carbon S-Works Enduro 29er, around a £6k build. 6"+ travel front and rear and it didn't matter what the terrain was - up/down/flat/smooth/rocky/rooty/twisty/open - it just monstered everything at speeds I didn't think possible.

Retro may be many things; nostalgic, characterful, affordable (relatively!), durable, inspiring, beautiful - but at the absolute pinnacle, faster? Not a chance.

This....

The end.....

If retro bikes were faster the top end modern XC bikes would look like retro bikes.

 

[legrandefromage]

But that £6k specilaized bears no resemblance to what off road cycling started out as. It's an off shoot of the bicycle tree, a separate design route it cannot be compared like for like.

Is modern full suss faster than retro full suss - most likely whatever the rider

Is modern rigid faster than retro - probably not because its still the same. All the marketing, 'technology' and design has gone into the modern full suspension rig because thats what used to sell (road bikes are out selling MTB again) - bells and whistles.

I blame the Raleigh Activator II.

 

[raidan73]

Re:

I will confess to dipping in and out of this thread so this may well have already been discussed. When I completed a recent retro build I rode one of my favourite local loops and was blown away, even commenting that I couldn't have ridden a particular downhill faster on my modern hardtail. In hindsight that was a load of crap - I was just blown away by the bike and the feeling it gave me. It was nimble, agile and light on it's feet and it I was able to steer around deep ruts and large boulders. My hardtail would've got down the hill faster without question. I wouldn't have needed to steer around the ruts and rocks - I would've just ridden over them. I wouldn't have got the same pleasure out of it though and my riding skills wouldn't get the same workout.

I see Go-Pro videos on local MTB sites, Facebook and the like, of people flying down hills on their full sus monsters and man, do they look fast! All you can hear though is the banging, clanking and slapping of the bike basically ploughing through anything it comes across. It's fast but surely there is less skill, and certainly enjoyment, involved (unless the height of fulfilment is a KOM on Strava of course)?

I love my modern (well 2004) hardtail though have far more fun on my retro rides - they ain't faster though!

 

[legrandefromage]

My 15 year old full suss 853 Raleigh RSP with FULL Alivio (Gnarly) is way faster (Rad) than anything (Skilz) else I have simply because, as above, its a tank. It plows through everything, there is no skill required, no thinking, just pedal.

And that is as boring as hell. So, ride faster, jump bigger to get the thrilz, the bike soaks it all up.

 

[The History Man]

If a bike, old or new feels fast, it is fast. The most important distance that a bike can travel is the six inches between our ears.

Nice. Some of my bikes feel fast and I know they're just bikes like the others but they add something of themselves. Unquantifiable character and soul.

 

[shogun]

XCT probably comes in below most of those forks, given they're like $100 in today's money or about a third of the lowest retail of the above. I'd say if you compare stuff falling at the same retail market segment then vs now you'd have stuff like quadra 21Rs competing with things like X-Fusion Sweep/Slant/Slide, Rockshox Sektor etc. If you're comparing the performance at used retro fork price level vs new fork same price, I'd wager the modern fork would still win on most measures bar weight.

 

[Logic.Al]

Is this still going? I think I may congratulate myself on my longest thread.

 

[gradeAfailure]

But that £6k specilaized bears no resemblance to what off road cycling started out as. It's an off shoot of the bicycle tree, a separate design route it cannot be compared like for like.

See, you say that, but it has been designed to be the fastest bike across the widest range of terrain types - it's a pleasure to climb on, it will sprint flat out on the flat, yet it will take on a World Cup DH course (look at what the Specialized team riders were riding at Pietermaritzburg in the first race of the season - modified Enduros with triple clamps). To me, that IS what mountain biking is about - the ability to tackle anything that comes across your path.

Is modern full suss faster than retro full suss - most likely whatever the rider

Is modern rigid faster than retro - probably not because its still the same. All the marketing, 'technology' and design has gone into the modern full suspension rig because thats what used to sell (road bikes are out selling MTB again) - bells and whistles.

I'm sorry, but I'll debate that too. The suspension is far far better, brakes are more consistent and require less effort, leading to less rider fatigue. Modern carbon frames are technological works of art, with modern FEA software far better able to assist designers in getting the most from the material in terms of shock absorption vs. pedalling stiffness/efficiency. On all but the most technical terrain, 29ers have proven to be faster rolling and more efficient (how many pros are riding 26ers?), requiring less rider effort for the same forward momentum. Tubeless gives arguably better grip and feel without sacrificing rolling speed. 10- and 11-speed drivetrains give less awkward jumps between ratios than 7- or 8-speed.

Note that at no time have I said modern is "better", as that's a subjective term the depends entirely on what each individual desires from a bike...! But "faster" is a measurable value, and one I think you'd struggle to argue against.

I blame the Raleigh Activator II.

Well, don't we all...

 

[Woz]

60mph and a 66 tooth chainring: http://www.switchbackmagazine-digital.c ... &fs=1#pg29

Is there a pro event and a pro DH bike today that hits 60mph and fitted with a 66 tooth chainring? If not, then yes, retro is faster.

I'm still waiting for a post about a modern MTB in a modern MTB competition where riders clock 60 mph. Even the
current fashion of 1 x 10 gearing strongly suggests that modern MTBs aren't even designed to go fast.

Clocking a few mph more over a stretch of rock garden or gnarly stuff due to modern gubbins
isn't jaw dropping in terms of flat out top speed in my book. Let's see some top speeds!

 

[The History Man]

That is crazy! Average speed 45mph :shock:

http://vimeo.com/10711229