Cyclists who kill

[Woz]

I've never felt more comfortable and safe than when cycling french roads... Paris and Nantes I was amazed at how set up for cyclists it was.
I did a little refresh of the road laws re cyclists before the last peddle about in France and it seems the common sense of heirachy has been ingrained for a long time....shocked that on most roads a cyclist has the right to go through red lights.....at their risk if course. Such common sense....helps keeps snarled up traffic and cyclists away from each other .....gonna take a long long time here to reach that point...

Conversely, when I was in Norfolk about 6 years ago I was horrified at the state of affairs - the only place I felt safe was on the minor road patchwork of little lanes. Back in the mid 90s I was living in Paris and cycled a lot in the city - no bike lanes - no cycling infrastructure - but oddly felt safe amongst the madness, all I had to do was occupy the the space of a car to be seen and keep up with the flow of traffic. Even as a pedestrian, the zebra crossings are more like a suggestion to an average Parisian so each motorist needs to be on the ball. I'm a firm believer that if road craft and road culture is developed, we actually don't need a lot of this bullshit infrastructure to separate road users.

EDIT: By law in France, a bike needs to have a bell - otherwise it's a hefty 11€ fine

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Conversely, when I was in Norfolk about 6 years ago I was horrified at the state of affairs - the only place I felt safe was on the minor road patchwork of little lanes. Back in the mid 90s I was living in Paris and cycled a lot in the city - no bike lanes - no cycling infrastructure - but oddly felt safe amongst the madness, all I had to do was occupy the the space of a car to be seen and keep up with the flow of traffic. Even as a pedestrian, the zebra crossings are more like a suggestion to an average Parisian so each motorist needs to be on the ball. I'm a firm believer that if road craft and road culture is developed, we actually don't need a lot of this bullshit infrastructure to separate road users.

EDIT: By law in France, a bike needs to have a bell - otherwise it's a hefty 11€ fine

The only bike I've seen in France with a bell end on was mine! Don't you also by law have to ride with a hi Viz? Didn't see much of that either! Laws don't really do diddly squat it's only after the fact as it were..... attitude ,mindset and simple respect is all that's needed ....agreed all this separate space malarky....I think it'll only make the them us divide actually worse.
Just imagine a road licence....not a driver's licence.....you start small maybe hoop n stick then two wheels and progress up to things with engines!

 

[Woz]

The only bike I've seen in France with a bell end on was mine! Don't you also by law have to ride with a hi Viz? Didn't see much of that either! Laws don't really do diddly squat it's only after the fact as it were..... attitude ,mindset and simple respect is all that's needed ....agreed all this separate space malarky....I think it'll only make the them us divide actually worse.
Just imagine a road licence....not a driver's licence.....you start small maybe hoop n stick then two wheels and progress up to things with engines!

This isn't a bad read, answers the Hi-Viz thing which to be honest I was unaware of myself till a few years ago.

https://www.loirelifecycling.com/cycling-laws-in-france/

 

[hookooekoo]

Grant Shapps: Cyclists should have number plates, be insured and subject to speed limits

 

[hookooekoo]

In particular, he is said to be concerned about cyclists riding at speeds above 20mph, which he claims they can “easily exceed” – even though the speed of e-bikes legal for road use, for instance, is capped at 15.5mph, and the vast majority of people riding bicycles would never approach such a speed on flat roads, nor are bikes required to be fitted with speedometers.

 

[hookooekoo]

I have my suspicions that these anti-cyclist proposals are intended to try and placate the motorists who are becoming increasingly irritated by the new 20mph limits that are now springing up all over the place. Presumably being overtaken by a cyclist who isn't subject to speed restrictions is the ultimate insult to a motorist's fragile ego.

It should also be noted that Surrey County Council has recently started a pilot trial of 20mph limits on rural roads. No doubt this will make such roads very cyclist friendly, but enrage those who want to burn hydrocarbons and rubber on rural roads.

And goodness knows how the Strava fans will respond to this. Will Strava start shopping cyclists to the police if they post GPS logs that indicate that the rider was speeding?

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Grant Shapps: Cyclists should have number plates, be insured and subject to speed limits

That's the numpty suggesting anyone with a car licence could drive for reward in 7.5 ton lorries!
No thank you...

 

[hookooekoo]

That's the numpty suggesting anyone with a car licence could drive for reward in 7.5 ton lorries!
No thank you...

To be fair, anyone who passed their test before about 1997 had 7.5t entitlement. And people who passed their test more recently have arguably passed a harder test, as the maximum permissible number of minor faults has been decreased and the driving theory test has been added.

Also, quite recently I think the requirement for caravan and trailer towing training was removed. Perhaps that was Grant Shapp's idea too? Although when diesel and petrol disappear I suspect that towing anything more than a few miles may become impossible.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

To be fair, anyone who passed their test before about 1997 had 7.5t entitlement. And people who passed their test more recently have arguably passed a harder test, as the maximum permissible number of minor faults has been decreased and the driving theory test has been added.

Also, quite recently I think the requirement for caravan and trailer towing training was removed. Perhaps that was Grant Shapp's idea too? Although when diesel and petrol disappear I suspect that towing anything more than a few miles may become impossible.

Yeah I had that removed along with 125 motorbike entitlement years ago...however I'm pretty sure the 7.5 wasn't for hire or reward....
The risk is low if someone only drives a 7.5 ton truck maybe twice in their life to move a relative to a new house....but daily as a pro driver? No I don't like the idea of a kid with less than 10k road miles under the belt driving one.

 

[hookooekoo]

Yeah I had that removed along with 125 motorbike entitlement years ago...however I'm pretty sure the 7.5 wasn't for hire or reward....
The risk is low if someone only drives a 7.5 ton truck maybe twice in their life to move a relative to a new house....but daily as a pro driver? No I don't like the idea of a kid with less than 10k road miles under the belt driving one.

I used to know someone who drove 7.5t for reward after being made redundant. I'm fairly sure he only had the entitlement he got with his car licence.

Edit: That was back in about 2005ish.