which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group ?

[bduc61]

I have a first generation black anodised Dura Ace group

I would like to build it on a nice race frame from the 70's to be coherent

But most of the high end bikes of that time were sporting the Campagnolo Nuovo Record group
especially the italian framemakers
If the french were not using that group , they would probably favor Simplex SLJ

I wonder actually which makes did dare use that group on their high end frames ?

to put things in perspective, it seems that a french dealer in 1978 would offer the
campagnolo record group for 2850 FF
the Dura Ace one for 1490
The french SLJ for 1390 or about
it clearly sets the campa apart :shock:

coming from the MTB scene, I tend to favor shimano ( XT and XTR are a convincing argument for quality and reliability !)

But it seems Dura Ace which was the first attempt of Shimano to compete with high end Campa took quite a bit of time to convince at the same time users and makers that it deserved respect :idea:

I wonder when did the prices became comparable between the two ?

One example I have is Puch which build it highest model the Ultima with Campa Super Record and the following ones ( Vent noir and Royal Force with the Dura Ace kit - both with full 531 DB tubing )

here is an interesting tale of the make
http://www.company7.com/bosendorfer/ADbicycle.html

here is a post from US users recalling the comparison between the two ( and not being as much influenced by their national roots as hardly any high end bike was from US oringin :idea: )

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 31379.html

and disraeli gears commenting on the first dura ace derailleurs

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shi ... 01%29.html

http://www.disraeligears.co.uk/Site/Shi ... 00%29.html


I wonder what did the dutch like Concorde or Gazelle do ?
and the English framemakers ???

Comments and ideas welcomed

which frame deserves first dura ace kit :?: :?: :?:

 

[Midlife]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

Mercian, woodrup, bob jackson, harry quinn, aende, ken bird, jack hearne, the list of 70's british steel is almost endless. I ran my first genertion dura-ace new out of the box on a falcon san remo.

Shaun

 

[ata]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

The best choice from a Dutch perspective would probably be a '70s Batavus Professional or a high end early Koga Miyata. If I'm correct Andries Gaastra was the Dutch importer for Shimano and he left Batavus to found Koga Miyata. Koga Miyata was also responsible for getting Dura Ace noted as a contender when Peter Winnnen finished first at Alpe d'Huez in 1981 on a Dura Ace Ex equipped Koga.

A Gazelle wouldn't be a problem either, the Dutch are practical and you can find any (mix of) components on '70s bikes over here.

 

[Nob]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

Bob Jackson or Harry Quinn spring to mind for this gruppo

 

[bduc61]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

The best choice from a Dutch perspective would probably be a '70s Batavus Professional or a high end early Koga Miyata. If I'm correct Andries Gaastra was the Dutch importer for Shimano and he left Batavus to found Koga Miyata. Koga Miyata was also responsible for getting Dura Ace noted as a contender when Peter Winnnen finished first at Alpe d'Huez in 1981 on a Dura Ace Ex equipped Koga.

A Gazelle wouldn't be a problem either, the Dutch are practical and you can find any (mix of) components on '70s bikes over here.

as you suggest dutch frame would probably be a smart option :idea:
I just saw Mel beautiful Koga Miyata
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=266261

but its too big - I am after a 55ish being 1.74 tall - and this frame is from 82 so a bit late for the first gen group ( especially as I would like an Eroica compatible machine - you never know may have the courage to do it one of these days :idea: :mrgreen: )

 

[Midlife]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

Remember Trevor Bull and Phil Bayton rode for Dawes/Dura-Ace in the mid 70's

Shaun

 

[Old Ned]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

How about a Flandria? Freddy Maertens team rode on DA in the 70's.

 

[stringfellow1946]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

How about a Flandria? Freddy Maertens team rode on DA in the 70's.

Agreed

 

[kgt]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

Koga Miyata

 

[bduc61]

Re: which frame for a black first generation Dura Ace group

Koga Miyata

I am keen to see if Mel has a comment to make

as he is the specialist of dutch frames - he may say if it is possible to source easily a pre 78 frame ? as Koga was founded only in 74
seems the majority is 80's ?

but it is true I am inclined to follow either the dutch road with Gazelle and Koga or Batavus
but
Bridgestone or Panasonic could be an interestig choice too :idea:

On the "japanese front"
I have found this
Panasonic Professional 1974


or Bridgestone the iconic RB1 is much later
Even if Sheldon shows the earliest catalog of the Bridgestone range for 1985 with the upper road model being the Grand Velo 3100 model sporting already the 7400 group
I have digged an earlier japanese catalog of 1975 sporting the Grand Velo
well this model is sporting a Campa Groupset so even in Japan, it was still considered the ultimate choice for a racer :idea:

http://cyclespeugeot.web.fc2.com/bsgrandvelo7.htm



For Miyata, I have found a model trying to catch on Eddy Merckx fame as early as 1973
the MX RR, sporting Dura Ace




and later in 1978 the Extra Record