What if Klein started to sell bikes again?
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02gf74":1u4q42vc said:
Quite...
Look at the reviews the bikes got BITD. Pretty much every review said that the bikes rode well but were just too harsh with the big aluminium tubing kicking the shit out of you as soon as things got lumpy.
It was the addition of Mag 21 forks to the Attitude (in particular) that really transformed the ride. The forks adding a degree of comfort which when matched to the stiff rear end made for a fast, but controllable ride.
Only when suspension forks were added did reviewers start saying that Kleins were great rather than just good.
Those of us that actually ride off road didn't really want rigid Kleins back in the 90's, why would we want them now?
02gf74":38xq9ehi said:
Well that's not my experience. The Mountains around Oslo, Norway where I live, have lots of gravel roads. I practically never use my front suspension since a rarely go into the trails any more (growing up i guess
).On gravel roads rigid would normally be better depending on the surface of course. Back in the days we also had suspension available but I never wanted it and never really felt any need for it either.
Today most bikes are fitted with suspension....even for people who only ride around town. I wonder how many of them who use their suspension?.....heh..how many even know how to release the lockout? :-D
highlandsflyer
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Raging_Bulls":10llyszh said:
Faster why?
Especially the, "a hell of a lot faster" bit!
highlandsflyer
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RB does not mention his point is rigid versus hardtail, and we are talking pre Trek Kleins. Not rigid versus hardtail Kleins.
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My point isn't even rigid vs hardtail. My point is purely based on changes in geometry and brakes. But yeah, suspension does make the difference a lot bigger.
If old bikes (in general, so including Kleins, Zaskars and any other competition-oriented bikes) were anywhere near as fast as modern ones, you'd still see them in competition.
I'd like to add more, but am too busy with work right now. I'll go into detail later.
If old bikes (in general, so including Kleins, Zaskars and any other competition-oriented bikes) were anywhere near as fast as modern ones, you'd still see them in competition.
I'd like to add more, but am too busy with work right now. I'll go into detail later.
Russell":31ttpxgt said:
On a given terrain yes...but that would also be the case for rigid. Otherwise I guess roadbikes would have suspension as well. Disc brakes are better than cantis but do you really think that the difference is that big? I still remember my old M737's and they were great. My modern XT disc brakes are better but it's marginally and I honestly don't know if they give that much of an advantage.
I do however agree that suspension have it's advantages but as I mentioned earlier I honestly cannot say I use them that much.
But what about the old Kleins....?.......thats kind of why I started this thread....
I often wonder about these things... If I won like a squillion dollars, I'd liek to buy the rights to one of the old companies (klein, fat chance etc) and start making them again liek they were... but really the market would be super limited as most people want a carbon wonder bike, or us oldies want the real thing, not a ressurect thing...
And when it comes to the companies, well they would just screw it up, don't get me wrong, I am super happy with my zaskar reissue, for me its really really good, but then I can only compare to very short rides on old ones. So I guess not really screw it up, but more they would have to modernize it, so if trek were to reproduce, it would have to have disc, and have to have 4in travel, so it wouldn't really be like an old one...
Look at the Ritchey P-team, good effort, I'd like one, but still not like the old ones...
Still if they did, I'd be interested (not saying I'd buy one, but definately be interested)
Also, since Trek is big, maybe they have the pulling power, I'd like to see a limited edition, get on board with Shimano and Rockshox (ha Sram) and bring out limited edition M900 and Mag 21 Sl's... that be cool
but never going to happen (until I win those squillions...)
And when it comes to the companies, well they would just screw it up, don't get me wrong, I am super happy with my zaskar reissue, for me its really really good, but then I can only compare to very short rides on old ones. So I guess not really screw it up, but more they would have to modernize it, so if trek were to reproduce, it would have to have disc, and have to have 4in travel, so it wouldn't really be like an old one...
Look at the Ritchey P-team, good effort, I'd like one, but still not like the old ones...
Still if they did, I'd be interested (not saying I'd buy one, but definately be interested)
Also, since Trek is big, maybe they have the pulling power, I'd like to see a limited edition, get on board with Shimano and Rockshox (ha Sram) and bring out limited edition M900 and Mag 21 Sl's... that be cool
but never going to happen (until I win those squillions...)
highlandsflyer
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Kleins had 'modern'-ish geometry and in hardtail flavour would only be marginally outpaced by high end moderns. You can equip an old Klein fuselage with just about all the hardware any modern has and make the difference moot.
Arguing things would still be in production were they competitive is specious.
Concorde, for example.
It is not always about inferiority, it is often about the economy of scale.
Arguing things would still be in production were they competitive is specious.
Concorde, for example.
It is not always about inferiority, it is often about the economy of scale.
