2manyoranges
Old School Grand Master
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TRUE!
The Purpose of Full Suspension?
- Thread starter hookooekoo
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To me full-suss is for comfort when pootling along, so aging bodies like mine don't have to pack in so quickly.
And not sure if mentioned.
GRIP
Suspension provides grip, is keeps wheel in contact with the ground where even an under inflated rigid bikes tyre (and of course every proper retro 45PSI, ultrawide 2.1" or normal 1.9" tyre) would be leaving the ground.
Me, feck that, aches pains* and swearing on the old stuff is still the way forward.
*and I mean it, may wrist and hands regularly pack in now :-(
There is a lovely easy descent in the moors, long and chalky from blakey ridge heading off to cropton, can't keep hold of the bars at the bottom anymore, last time I was there anywhere, it'll worse now.
And not sure if mentioned.
GRIP
Suspension provides grip, is keeps wheel in contact with the ground where even an under inflated rigid bikes tyre (and of course every proper retro 45PSI, ultrawide 2.1" or normal 1.9" tyre) would be leaving the ground.
Me, feck that, aches pains* and swearing on the old stuff is still the way forward.
*and I mean it, may wrist and hands regularly pack in now :-(
There is a lovely easy descent in the moors, long and chalky from blakey ridge heading off to cropton, can't keep hold of the bars at the bottom anymore, last time I was there anywhere, it'll worse now.
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2manyoranges
Old School Grand Master
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Ah you be talkin' bout SAG, boy. This is a vital component of suspension, along with REBOUND RATE. And then RECOVERY and COMPRESSION-REBOUND relationships. Somewhere in the 14 compression circuit clicks, 5 slow circuit clicks and 10 or so rebound rate clicks there is the right setting on the RetroGrom's DH forks. Glad I don't have to set all this up on my YETI - Skoda that is, not SB-series. At least SAG is easy to set, and vital for grip. But you are right. Correct suspension = GRIP. Joy Of Bike are excellent on rebound in one of Alex's hilarious yet technical videos - he goes over a jump with too much rebound, and get launched skywards. Nice simple demo....
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I have a 150/140mm 29", long, low, slack full suss bike and think it's absolutely ace! I can ride all the stuff I used to on my rigid bikes but can also tackle terrain that would have had me walking in the past. Back in the 90's we didn't have trail centres built specifically with this (and other modern) bikes in mind but now we do and they're very busy.
To be honest my gravel bike is far closer to my retro bike in ability and I use it to ride all the trails I used to as a kid. It's good fun taking retro/gravel to the limit but it's also a huge laugh blasting past those limits on a modern ride and re-calibrating what's rideable.
Riding bikes is fun but people should spend a decent amount of time on a modern bike, trying sections they would normally avoid and seeing how capable they are before dismissing them as skills compensators and other such nonsense.
When I say modern I mean the last 3 to 4 years max btw, geometry and suspension tech has moved on at pace to the point where the current stuff is very different to similar bikes from 10 years ago.
To be honest my gravel bike is far closer to my retro bike in ability and I use it to ride all the trails I used to as a kid. It's good fun taking retro/gravel to the limit but it's also a huge laugh blasting past those limits on a modern ride and re-calibrating what's rideable.
Riding bikes is fun but people should spend a decent amount of time on a modern bike, trying sections they would normally avoid and seeing how capable they are before dismissing them as skills compensators and other such nonsense.
When I say modern I mean the last 3 to 4 years max btw, geometry and suspension tech has moved on at pace to the point where the current stuff is very different to similar bikes from 10 years ago.
Personally i think there are pros and cons, if that's the right description, to both full-suss and rigid/hardtail.
I have rode dh tracks on hardtails, on some tracks i am faster on hardtails, though to be fair i am a bit older now, so though i should still be able to get down them i would no doubt be a bit more steady. Which brings the point, already raised, that a full-suss smooths out rougher sections, and also raised is the subject of technique. Some bikes react well to riding through stuff, my original Giant Glory was so heavy that with decent suspension it just ploughed through rocks n roots, where as my Iron Horse Sunday which i had at the same time, was a lot lighter so you had to go light over rocks n roots, a technique i learnt on hardtails.
A lot of the trails i ride at the moment, Sherwood Forest and Peak District, i ride on rigid, im not out to set PB's or to see how fast i can go, but the bike is a lot easier to pick up and hop obstacles and gaps due to being a lot lighter. Of course following full-suss bikes i get left sometimes over the constant rough terrain and i have to stand, but that's how i have always rode. A long distance ride through the mountains would be nicer on a full-suss, to keep at bay the beating of days worth of smashing into things, but im sure i would notice the weight more going up hills or lifting the front wheel over obstacles
At the end of the day though, they are both bikes, can do pretty much the same things, i have only rigid ride-able bikes at the moment, it doesn't stop me going out and riding trails or in the hills.
I have rode dh tracks on hardtails, on some tracks i am faster on hardtails, though to be fair i am a bit older now, so though i should still be able to get down them i would no doubt be a bit more steady. Which brings the point, already raised, that a full-suss smooths out rougher sections, and also raised is the subject of technique. Some bikes react well to riding through stuff, my original Giant Glory was so heavy that with decent suspension it just ploughed through rocks n roots, where as my Iron Horse Sunday which i had at the same time, was a lot lighter so you had to go light over rocks n roots, a technique i learnt on hardtails.
A lot of the trails i ride at the moment, Sherwood Forest and Peak District, i ride on rigid, im not out to set PB's or to see how fast i can go, but the bike is a lot easier to pick up and hop obstacles and gaps due to being a lot lighter. Of course following full-suss bikes i get left sometimes over the constant rough terrain and i have to stand, but that's how i have always rode. A long distance ride through the mountains would be nicer on a full-suss, to keep at bay the beating of days worth of smashing into things, but im sure i would notice the weight more going up hills or lifting the front wheel over obstacles
At the end of the day though, they are both bikes, can do pretty much the same things, i have only rigid ride-able bikes at the moment, it doesn't stop me going out and riding trails or in the hills.
An interesting and IMV a pretty balanced discussion. When things go wrong on the edge with and FS bike it's all happening a lot faster and with more energy - so injuries are likely to be more severe. Compare that with the usual early-90s rigid bike 5mph faceplant.
However there are lots of different types of riding (personally the idea of a trail centre fills me with horror) and FS or rigid may be more or less useful. I ride almost always from my home and hate driving to a ride.
I ride a rigid singlespeed most as I enjoy the challenge. Other people could reasonably see it as an exercise in pointlessness. I had an FS bike for a while and found it dull - it was so competent it was uninvolving. If I lived in the Peak District then I am sure I would view it differently.
In the end, have fun riding, that's what matters most and there is no single right answer.
However there are lots of different types of riding (personally the idea of a trail centre fills me with horror) and FS or rigid may be more or less useful. I ride almost always from my home and hate driving to a ride.
I ride a rigid singlespeed most as I enjoy the challenge. Other people could reasonably see it as an exercise in pointlessness. I had an FS bike for a while and found it dull - it was so competent it was uninvolving. If I lived in the Peak District then I am sure I would view it differently.
In the end, have fun riding, that's what matters most and there is no single right answer.
I have both worlds, the old school and new. Hard tail or dual susp. And for daily, the new full suspension like Yetis, Commencal or Santa cruz etc are quite boooring. They make easy all.
I have allways been a XC rider who likes to go fast on narrow trails. But with my new one, it is effortless, with my 2006 is amazing and with my 1996 is scaring. I have never buy protections, and now I have a full helmet and body protections because I ride paths where I have never thought It will be posible.
I think that is the reason why people looks to gravel o CX, it is more thrilling because no all people has access to a bike park or a mountain with some interesting paths.
I have allways been a XC rider who likes to go fast on narrow trails. But with my new one, it is effortless, with my 2006 is amazing and with my 1996 is scaring. I have never buy protections, and now I have a full helmet and body protections because I ride paths where I have never thought It will be posible.
I think that is the reason why people looks to gravel o CX, it is more thrilling because no all people has access to a bike park or a mountain with some interesting paths.
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Very carefully picking my way down a very rocky decent on a very old bicycle, we were passed by some very fast guys on their very new bicycles.
Yes, they were at the bottom first but they were also getting drenched in Stan's Fluid as they had burst their tyres in many places around the rims.
Whilst having to walk up a very rocky ascent grumbling about dragging a very old bicycle about, we were passed by some slow ,but still astride, very new bicycles as their suspension allowed for perfect traction over bits I would have (and was) walked
And whilst riding up some smoother but very steep bits on the same elderly bicycle, some very new (and heavy) bicycles were being pushed up by their owners because they couldnt ride
It all depends on what you want from your bicycle.
Where I live, suspension is a bit pointless but have been running a full susser of some sort since the first Marin FSR caught my eye in 1997
So unless you are some sort of weirdo that has just one bicycle, have both.
Yes, they were at the bottom first but they were also getting drenched in Stan's Fluid as they had burst their tyres in many places around the rims.
Whilst having to walk up a very rocky ascent grumbling about dragging a very old bicycle about, we were passed by some slow ,but still astride, very new bicycles as their suspension allowed for perfect traction over bits I would have (and was) walked
And whilst riding up some smoother but very steep bits on the same elderly bicycle, some very new (and heavy) bicycles were being pushed up by their owners because they couldnt ride
It all depends on what you want from your bicycle.
Where I live, suspension is a bit pointless but have been running a full susser of some sort since the first Marin FSR caught my eye in 1997
So unless you are some sort of weirdo that has just one bicycle, have both.
velomaniac
MacRetro Rider
Recently seen a vid on MBGN where an expert rider is pitted against an enthusiastic amatuer against a complete newbie on a DH course all on modern full sussers. Biggest surprise was the newbie, virtually no serious off road experience but but got down course only a couple of minutes slower than expert. Reason the modern full susser just absorbed all the terrain hits regardless of how woeful his line choice. Modern bikes are great at what they are intended for. If they were not you'd have to as what the **** had the mtb R&D boys (&girls) been doing for the past 20 - 30 years.
Personally I think piloting our old school bikes down modern trails or any trails is braver/foolhardy but laced with more hard earned skill than the modern rider.
Personally I think piloting our old school bikes down modern trails or any trails is braver/foolhardy but laced with more hard earned skill than the modern rider.
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