The art and science of threaded headset adjusting

[kjarrett]

Ok, so I've rebuilt plenty of headsets, hubs and other ball-bearing axles over the years, but, I continue to struggle with getting my headset tight enough so there's no play while still allowing it to spin freely.

My Axis Pro has a 1 1/8" Tioga Alchemy headset. I have a retainer clip holding the bottom set of bearings but not in the top (I noticed it was bent last time so I removed it.) I added a enough bearings to fill the top race minus TWO, put everything back together with generous amounts of Phil green grease, and used proper spanner wrenches to snug everything up (finger tight, then back off a bit, right?). Problem is when I make the top race tight enough so there's no play when I hold the headset in my hand and rock the wheel against the brake, it seems like it is too hard to turn the bars (but they DO move). They just don't spin easily.

I've tried and tried different ways to hold the top cup in place while tightening the lock nut but never seem to be able to get it right.

Wondering what I'm doing wrong. Suggestions most appreciated.

-kj-

 

[FluffyChicken]

cups out of alignment..
poor bearings*/bearing surface

Headset don't need to spin, they need to move a few degrees either side of forward. They are not a rotating bearing.


Have a ride with it in the best position you find, see how it feels after a few miles.



*especially as you added bearings.
Scrap them all and start again with a complete set of new bearings, all from the same set, if it starts to be a real problem.

 

[focomat 1c]

Re:

I guess that by retainer clip you mean the cage that holds and separates the ball bearings ?

Perhaps the first question is how did this cage get bent ? And If you still have it maybe you could straighten the cage and put it back into use ?

When did your problems start ? is the headset new to the bike ? is there a washer between the top race and the locknut ?

So many questions , yet I think we really deserve to hear the answers !

 

[kjarrett]

cups out of alignment..
poor bearings*/bearing surface

Headset don't need to spin, they need to move a few degrees either side of forward. They are not a rotating bearing.

Have a ride with it in the best position you find, see how it feels after a few miles.

*especially as you added bearings.
Scrap them all and start again with a complete set of new bearings, all from the same set, if it starts to be a real problem.

Bearings are all new, even the ones in the retainer. Definitely can move either side. Will ride and report back. Thanks for the reply!

 

[kjarrett]

Re: Re:

I guess that by retainer clip you mean the cage that holds and separates the ball bearings ?

Perhaps the first question is how did this cage get bent ? And If you still have it maybe you could straighten the cage and put it back into use ?

When did your problems start ? is the headset new to the bike ? is there a washer between the top race and the locknut ?

So many questions , yet I think we really deserve to hear the answers !

Yes, the cage. Thought they were known as retainers. All good!

Cage was bent likely by overtightening by the shop I last had work on the bike (I gave up and sought professional help, ha).

I have had these problems on every bike I've owned, never seem to be able to get it tight the way bike shops do.

Headset is new to this bike/frame but was on my old bike. Fork is a carryover as well.

There is not a washer between the top race and the locknut.

Thanks for the reply!

-kj-

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

get a locknut washer between the locknut and race cup, it stops them binding together, makes it easier to set and helps prevent the headset undoing itself.
Unless it didn't come with one?

If it is an old headset, then there could be little dents where the bearings go, since the balls don't really move and you go straight most of the time and the forces hammer them into the races.

But getting a headset just right is luck, even with Aheadset. Even worse when doing it with V-brakes that tend to have a small amount of play in them now so they don't bind.
And then good old suspension forks with bushes and bit n bobs to move.

 

[kjarrett]

Re: Re:

get a locknut washer between the locknut and race cup, it stops them binding together, makes it easier to set and helps prevent the headset undoing itself.
Unless it didn't come with one?

If it is an old headset, then there could be little dents where the bearings go, since the balls don't really move and you go straight most of the time and the forces hammer them into the races.

But getting a headset just right is luck, even with Aheadset. Even worse when doing it with V-brakes that tend to have a small amount of play in them now so they don't bind.
And then good old suspension forks with bushes and bit n bobs to move.

Ah! Interesting idea, I can see where a washer might help. Can try to find one, but this headset did not come with one, as far as I know. Thanks for the suggestion!

Bearings are new. Races / cups are clean and smooth.

Good to know a spot of luck is involved, like I said, I've almost never gotten a headset tight on my own, haha!

-kj-

 

[hamster]

I wouldn't set the headset finger tight then back off.
Tighten the lower part until the headset just doesn't have play (fingers are fine)
Check for rock when the front brake is applied. I like to put a finger across the headset / crown to feel for any front-to-back movement.
Fit headset spanner to lower, note its position carefully.
Bring top lock ring down onto bottom and tighten. Make sure the lower does not rotate. It's at this point that a washer (especially a slotted one) helps the top lockring to tighten without stirring the lower.

An alternative way is to tighten the bottom one and bring it back onto a locked top.

Often you do need to settle the whole headset stack by a gentle tighten to get all the balls to align etc and then loosen and restart to set the bearing tension. I'm not saying masive amounts of tightening, as that will of course risk denting the race.

 

[kjarrett]

I wouldn't set the headset finger tight then back off.
Tighten the lower part until the headset just doesn't have play (fingers are fine)
Check for rock when the front brake is applied. I like to put a finger across the headset / crown to feel for any front-to-back movement.
Fit headset spanner to lower, note its position carefully.
Bring top lock ring down onto bottom and tighten. Make sure the lower does not rotate. It's at this point that a washer (especially a slotted one) helps the top lockring to tighten without stirring the lower.

An alternative way is to tighten the bottom one and bring it back onto a locked top.

Often you do need to settle the whole headset stack by a gentle tighten to get all the balls to align etc and then loosen and restart to set the bearing tension. I'm not saying massive amounts of tightening, as that will of course risk denting the race.

Thanks for the reply, much appreciated. What you've described is essentially what I *TRIED* to do, but found it hard to keep the upper race from moving. I also tried to tighten the race back into the lock nut. I've succeed to a degree, there is no play (what you describe is exactly how I check) but the resistance while turning is concerning. It moves, easily enough, but ... not like it has when I've had a shop do the work. So I will keep experimenting and learning.

This headset does have a slotted washer, recessed into the upper race.

I'll also be out on the trail soon and will see if I can knock anything loose.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

take some pictures of the headset, just out of interest.
You can and do use two spanners?

or get yourself a Mavic style headset and you just hand tighten and do the Allen key.