Rapid Rise vs. Front Freewheel (or both?)
- Thread starter Retrorockit
- Start date
Retrorockit
Retro Guru
Moron this.
I used to run the bars much lower than the saddle, and a 48t chain ring. But in urban riding around here keeping an eye on other vehicles takes priority. Also at 70yo the speeds I'm "going" rolling resistance, and low rotating mass for acceleration help as much as aero. For me XC= Extreme Comfort. In urban South Florida riding around staring at the top of your front tire doesn't work very well. If I want to get somewhere in a hurry I take the 1500W Ebike, which is also Front Freewheel, and Rapid Rise. Shifts just like an Alfine 8. Except I can replace most of it cheaply and easily when it wears out. Still sitting upright though. 24Ah battery does the aero for me. Chain and cassette pair are good for about 6 months.
I'll keep an eye out for Vindegaard. In my rear view mirror.....
I used to run the bars much lower than the saddle, and a 48t chain ring. But in urban riding around here keeping an eye on other vehicles takes priority. Also at 70yo the speeds I'm "going" rolling resistance, and low rotating mass for acceleration help as much as aero. For me XC= Extreme Comfort. In urban South Florida riding around staring at the top of your front tire doesn't work very well. If I want to get somewhere in a hurry I take the 1500W Ebike, which is also Front Freewheel, and Rapid Rise. Shifts just like an Alfine 8. Except I can replace most of it cheaply and easily when it wears out. Still sitting upright though. 24Ah battery does the aero for me. Chain and cassette pair are good for about 6 months.
I'll keep an eye out for Vindegaard. In my rear view mirror.....
Guinessisgoodforyou
rBotM Winner
Retrorockit
Retro Guru
Is that what Guinness is doing for you?
Guinessisgoodforyou
rBotM Winner
Not at this time of the day
Retrorockit
Retro Guru
I went to a more upright riding position on this bike now that it's very comfy with the RH tires. Taking load off the front made the handling have a mind of it's own. I guess the agressive XC geometry relied on your weight pushing forward on the flat bars, and long stem for centering. Taking that away made it floppy off center in turns. I added a Works -1* angleset (slack)in 1 1/8" size and that fixed it. Still quick handling but not wandering away in turns. This shortened the cockpit a little. Slid the seat back 1/2" fixed that. I have an extra one of these in my toolbox. Seems like a good thing to have around when mixing parts or repurposing older bikes. It took a while to get one here in the US. Might be easier to find in the UK.
the same kit provides +1* (steep) also if you need to add a slightly longer fork to keep an older bike in service. Newer bikes with bigger headtubes, but 1 1/8 forks can go +/- 1.5*-2.0*.
the same kit provides +1* (steep) also if you need to add a slightly longer fork to keep an older bike in service. Newer bikes with bigger headtubes, but 1 1/8 forks can go +/- 1.5*-2.0*.
Retrorockit
Retro Guru
I made a thread in an Ebike forum for doing the Front Freewheel Mod. on hubmotor bikes. More benefits than on a pedal bike,but the mod. is exactly the same. My other threads on this are long because I was figuring out how to do it as I went along. This one is much simpler and better organized. The concept, the parts list for the front freewheel, parts list for the idler chain guide, how to do it, and a user guide. I've done 2 bikes already to develop this idea. I won't be building a hubmotor bike to do it again. So here's the short version.
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/168531-hub-motor-front-freewheel-mod
https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/main-forum/diy-discussion/168531-hub-motor-front-freewheel-mod
Retrorockit
Retro Guru
When I did the freewheel for this I added a 72 POE (points of engagement) ENO Trials freewheel driver to this just to see if it would work. It's now an option on all freewheels at White ENO. But for me it just made noise and added some drag to the bike when coasting, so I took it back out, and it's 36POE now which is still a fairly high count in MTB hubs. A lot of Shimano are 20POE. Most riders don't notice this, but guys from BMX or Trials are very aware of it. 36POE in a FFW setup is always 10* crank engagement in all gears, 72POE is of course 5*. Rear Freewheel engagemant angle varies in each gear with multispeed bikes. So technical riders may like this for that.
Retrorockit
Retro Guru
The Zee M640 has proven that SS cage can handle 11-40t cassette. But I still want Rapid Rise because of my aggressive downshift habits from the urban Ebike. So I converted a rapid Rise LX ferailleur to SS cage with Saint M801 parts. Then used a Jtek #6 shift converter to get the SRAM NX 11s twist shifter to work with an 8s derailleur on an 11s cassette. It seems to be working so far. if I have any trouble with this setup I'll say so. I have several other shifter options for this. But this is the only 11s Rapid Rise I could come up with.
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Retrorockit
Retro Guru
The 11s and Rapid Rise worked in that it shifted Ok. But I had to take it off. The shift cable doesn't really like to be wound around a small sheave. If it's under tension all the time that might be OK. But Rapid Rise ability to shift when stopped relies on slack going into the cable, which will be taken up when the bike moves again. This allows a deraillment of the cable to occur inside the Shiftmate.
The Shiftmate has an issue itself. The holes for the cable housing are offset to line up with the 2 different diameters of the sheaves, but they don't guide the cable itself very accurately. It can go across to the wrong side easily. The larger side can easily cross over the smaller side, and bind up. I could proabaly make that part work. But I don't have an answer yet for the Rapid Rise issue which was he whole point for me. So it looks like Rapid Rise is a Shimano only 7,8,9 speed thing. This isn't a big deal for me. I just had the parts and wanted to try it. It still works on the 8s Ebike.
I'm going back to the SS cage Zee M640 derailleur, and installing a trigger shifter so the reverse gripshift rotation won't be an issue between my 2 bikes anymore.
The Shiftmate has an issue itself. The holes for the cable housing are offset to line up with the 2 different diameters of the sheaves, but they don't guide the cable itself very accurately. It can go across to the wrong side easily. The larger side can easily cross over the smaller side, and bind up. I could proabaly make that part work. But I don't have an answer yet for the Rapid Rise issue which was he whole point for me. So it looks like Rapid Rise is a Shimano only 7,8,9 speed thing. This isn't a big deal for me. I just had the parts and wanted to try it. It still works on the 8s Ebike.
I'm going back to the SS cage Zee M640 derailleur, and installing a trigger shifter so the reverse gripshift rotation won't be an issue between my 2 bikes anymore.
