Rapid Rise vs. Front Freewheel (or both?)

[Retrorockit]

Rene HERSE Rat Trap Pass 26x2.3 Extralight gravel slicks. 410g. down from 570g on the Scwalbe 26x2 slicks. Softer faster stickier. Expensive handmade racing tires. Retro looks and totally up to date performance. I started thread on this but it got infested with morons before the tires showed up.

 

[Retrorockit]

The RH Extralight tires are doing everything RH says they do. I'm riding this more than the Ebike now. I went with Latex tubes to get the full effect.
I also bought a small battery powered compressor with digital psi gauge to air them up daily.

As far as the FFW goes, no issues except that compared to Rapid Rise downshifts at low bike speed (chain moving slowly) happen slower than with RR where you can dump some gears , even stopped. I'll probably end up with both at some point because I'm used to that on the Ebike. The 1x11 RR shifting will be an experiment. But right now the tires are getting all my attention. Very fast, and very smooth ride. Two things that traditionally didn't happen together. I'm almost ready to try tubeless for flat prevention.

 

[hamster]

Shimano FREESHIFT Shift without pedaling..........

FREE SHIFT|E-BIKE | SHIMANO BIKE-EU

To Build Closer Relationships between People, Nature, and Bicycles. We believe in the power of cycling to create a better world as we move forward. We inspire all people to enjoy our products in their everyday lives and where they take them.

bike.shimano.com

What next ? Is Rapid Rise coming back too? Here's some text from them on their XTR shifters
MULTI RELEASE
"Previous shifting systems shifted faster in one direction than the other. Choosing top normal or low normal always meant sacrificing shifting speed in one direction. Now with MULTI RELEASE you can release shift two gears in one stroke. The result - the fastest possible shifting in both directions regardless of rear derailleur choice........."

Are they admitting that previous trigger shifters short changed their own Rapid Rise derailleurs? Why are they offering low normal shifters all of a sudden?????? Is there going to be a choice again?

Another case of Shimano selling you the solution to the problem they created in the first place.
SRAM and Campag have been able to design shifters for DECADES that did multiple shifts per lever movement.

Shimano even did once: Thumbies.
..or shall I call them 'AI Shift System' as the Shimano marketing boys would doubtless call it?

 

[Retrorockit]

I don't even think they bothered to do it on purpose. To get Regnerative braking on mid drive Ebikes, they had to lock the rear freewheel. So it just happened. I wonder if they used a friction drive with a clutch on each separate cog like they did last time. I do it with a friction ring behind the whole cassette ( saw it on instructables, not my invention).

 

[Retrorockit]

The Rene HERSE tires are great. But I decided to go all in on the light weight, and low rolling resistance with Vittoria Latex inner tubes. The daily air loss was expected. But both tires completely flat after a couple days off wasn't. They worked great for the 3 rides I got out of them. I added some sealant to see what would happen. One firmed up and is holding pressure nicely after 3 more days. The other flatted again right away (no riding involved).
I pulled it down and found the metal stem coming off of the tube. Probably the same issue on the one holding air, just sealed up so far with Caffelatex sealant.
So the concept of Latex tubes and sealant seems valid. But I would give the tubes a week or so before sealing them to make sure the tubes aren't defective. But with sealant they seem to hold air quite well. Next up will be Rene HERSE TPU tubes. They were out of stock before. Metal stems, removable cores.

 

[hamster]

I don't understand why you didn't simply use an Alfine internally geared hub. It's more reliable and can shift when stationary.

 

[Retrorockit]

This was a 3x8 XC bike built 20 years ago. It already had Rapid Rise from the start. Light weight is a big part of the appeal of this bike. I also Own a Trek Navigator 400 for my wife that has a Nexus 8. Nexus/Alfine doesn't come in a 24 bladed spoke setup. Straight pull or otherwise.
The FFW on this bike is because I did that to my mid drive ebike (just a zip tie required, and some adavnced chain management). My pedaling became normal to stop pedaling to shift (cuts power releases the clutch). This of course was a problem on the pedal bike. So the FFW was required.
The only 2 options were ancient Shimano/Schwinn steel stuff. Or Intend custom built Magic Cranks at $900 with free zip tie. So DIY was the choice for me. The Ebike is still both Rapid Rise and FFW. The XC bike is just FFW with a 1x11 Gripshift setup. Since I don't get out in traffic with it the way I do with the Ebike it's OK.
In an age of plastic racing bikes I guess the Butted 7075 tubing, and Chomoly rear triangle doesn't show. But the 24 spoke wheels give a hint, along with the carbon riser handlebars.The 11s 11-40tcassette is 260g, and the 26"x2.3" tires are 410g. each. This is not your average Beach Cruiser.
The 28mm Rockshox SID fork is another lightweight racing part from days gone by.

 

[Retrorockit]

"I don't understand why you didn't simply use an Alfine internally geared hub. It's more reliable and can shift when stationary."

I'll go down the list of reasons why this bike doesn't need an Alfine 11. It's a fair comparison in a lot of ways.

1- It's heavy. Some bikes that doesn't matter., this one it does. My 11-40t Prestacycle cassette weighs 260g. Alfine 11 1665g. I'm pretty sue my Mavic hub and SLX derailleur don't add up to another 1Kg+. This bike does have a 1" rear suspension. So unsprung weight does apply here.

2- It's inefficient. Probably 8-10% loss because all the gears are moving in the IGH. This would negate the gains from 24 bladed spokes, lightweight fast rolling Rene HERSE tires, and just be an added burden riding into the headwings I have around here. I live in the suburbs. There is a certain amount of distance to get anywhere useful. 6 miles or more each way.

3- Shift with or without pedaling/ coasting. The Front Freewheel I added in this thread does that. Same as Alfine 11. Useful in close quarters or surprise situations. Downshift any number of gears at once if the bike is moving. thanks to the 11s Gripshift.

4- White ENO 72POE trials ratchet. I may switch back to 36POE . BMX/Trials racing strength part. I'm not sure what Alfine has there. My Shimano XT hubs are 20 POE ( but locked out for FFW use). Most riders will never notice this except BMX racers who are used to it (and the sound).

5-Shift when stopped. Rapid Rise derailleurs can do this. My 1x8 Ebike which gets ridden in urban traffic has this, and with Front Freewheel. Shifts just like an IGH but MTB strong.
This bike lost that feature when I switched to 1x11 speed from 3x8. For the more casual riding I use it for that's not been an issue so far. I may add that back in later. But it requires some shifter cable ratio conversion to get a shifter working for that. Plus it will be going backwards. But it already is backwards to the 1x8 Ebike, so that's actually a gain for me.

Starting with a bike that already had a derailleur, at the time I did this the cost would have been roughly the same. Especially since the Alfine would require a wheel to be built for it one way or another.

 

[hamster]

Have fun with this, I'm going to step out. Worrying about bladed spokes but ignoring the much larger aerodynamic effect of a decent low riding position cracks me up.

It's like trying to make a Range Rover go fast round corners. An MTB is the wrong starting point. Get a road bike.

Have fun playing, it's your hobby not mine!

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

"Rene HERSE Rat Trap Pass 26x2.3 Extralight gravel slicks. 410g. down from 570g on the Scwalbe 26x2 slicks. Softer faster stickier. Expensive handmade racing tires. Retro looks and totally up to date performance. "I started thread on this but it got infested with morons before the tires showed up."

Moron on this thread now. So you now have a matching pair mwah