New to retro bikes, advice on sizing, upgrading etc please

[Renevator]

Hi, thanks for accepting me to the forum.
I've inexplicably fallen for an Orange P7, but owners I guess will understand
I'm getting back into cycling after 35+ years off, and was originally looking at getting an Orange Clockwork 2014 ish era for general use, then I found a completely rebuilt P7 & started to think a retro bike would probably be so much more my thing. I just really like style of these bikes.

Anyway, I could do with some advice on sizing and general maintenance & upgrade possibilities.

I'm 5ft 9.5 inches, skinny, normal arm & leg length, age 64 (if all that matters).
I'm after a bike that can give me enormous pleasure in ownership & upgrading/personalising possibilities (I rekon anything retro would), and to ride on local roads, beaches, dunes, trails, bridelways etc - nothing at all strenuous or technincal - I ain't ever gonna be a proper mountain biker I'm afraid

So I've found 2 P7's. One is a 1997 completely rebuilt, marzocci forked, almost mint 21" frame (£695), and the other, same era, rigid fork, I think a 19" (The owner is just over 5'10" and he says it fits him perfect - £250 been stored for ages but mechanically good & reasonable nick).
I've not ridden any of them, obv need to, but they aren't close by, hence trying to get some advice.
The cheaper one seems a reasonable buy (summat I can upgrade/improve over time), but the larger one is completely sorted, and looks totally stunning - pricey though that's for sure.

My concern is that a lot of P7's of this era seem to have the seat set really high, giving the impression of a head down/arse up riding position

Is that normal for this era Orange P7 & other mtb's? If so, I may have to rethink, as I can't see this being enjoyable as an everyday do everything bike - I'm not 20 anymore unfortunately!.

I was therefore thinking, if I went for a much larger frame, I'd have more room to flatten the stance as it were, but obv would need to take into account stand over height/reach etc.
Or is that a totally stupid way to go?

On the maintenance side - there seem to be enough parts, consumables (tyres etc) around to continue using such a bike everyday, but are upgrade possibilities severely limited? - for instance, if I wanted to add suspension to the rigid forked P7 is that possible? or has it got to a stage where parts for upgrades are pretty rare.

Sorry for the long post - just trying to understand what I'm getting into, and if my thinking of using a retro mtb everyday is possible.

 

[Tootyred]

There's plenty of parts on the forum. Doing a rigid to suspension swap would be no problem....loads of good second hand forks out there.

As for sizing, the era you talking was very much designed around head down, arse up racing....but....you can either get a couple if size larger frame ( provided you can still stand over it) or look for marin or kona as both had "bigger" head tubes than many.

Ive been riding a 95 rocky mountain, they too have more sensible sized head tubes....and dropped top tubes aiding standover...

Plus, if you go for a frame with 1 1/8", why not swap to ahead forks and a stack of spaces.....or riser bars in a standard stem.

Im 6'4" with a iffy back and need the bars min level with the saddle now, but its easilly done without too much stress.

Hope your search goes well.

 

[Spankyfart]

I'm 6.2 and the best bikes for me are 56cm+
Currently a 20.5" Marin (long headtube) and a Koga Terrarunner CBL at 57CM (also large headtube)
I can't ride any other then a diamond geometry with a "relaxed" stance at 57.

If you can service your own bike I'd go for a parts picker, and make it your own. See what works for you and then buy better things accordingly.
Other then that, what tooty said.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Same height as you but maybe longer legs, I like 19" to 20" bikes (20" Konas are lovely)
Get the 19" Orange, not the 21".
18/18.5" are too small for me, they may be ok for you, the 19" would be comfier.

That position is correct, shorter forks gives it that lower front end, late 90's and early 00's would get you a higher front end as the suspension forks raise it (and hence why bikes are designed like they are now.

1997, so get some 80mm suspension forks and it'll be comfy.


Where about in the world/UK are you?

 

[Takingabreak]

I'm 6.2 and the best bikes for me are 56cm+
Currently a 20.5" Marin (long headtube) and a Koga Terrarunner CBL at 57CM (also large headtube)
I can't ride any other then a diamond geometry with a "relaxed" stance at 57.

If you can service your own bike I'd go for a parts picker, and make it your own. See what works for you and then buy better things accordingly.
Other then that, what tooty said.

In my head I always think of someone called Tooty Red rather than the clever play on words that is Too Tyred

 

[jimo746]

£695 seems top dollar for a '97 P7, and I'd imagine would be on the big side for you. The £250 one you mentioned sounds more reasonable and likely a better fit. Where did you see these bikes advertised for sale?
The fit of a bike is very personal, everyone is different (short legs/long body/ long arms etc), but you can easily make things easier on your back by for example changing from flat handlebars to riser bars, fitting a shorter stem/stem with a higher degree of rise, moving the saddle fore/aft.
You can easily fit suspension forks to a P7, still plenty of decent working ones around.
And any parts you swap out will still have value, so could be sold to offset the cost of the replacement parts fitted.

If you use Facebook then there's a good retro Orange owners group on there with similar discussions...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/538816663129641/?ref=share
And obviously good P7's at reasonable prices often come up for sale on the forum here, so it may be worth waiting a while, or posting a Wanted ad on here in the relevant section of the forum & see what comes up.

Good choice of bike regardless

 

[Renevator]

Thanks for all the replies guys, some really helpful info there. Reassures me that I'm not too bonkers in thinking a retro bike would suit my needs.
Well, I'm not sure either of the bikes I was looking at will work. The 1997 refurbed one is 85cm standover, and I've mocked up a bar at home and I'm starting to get onto toes at 83cm so I think an 85 frame is just too big.
The other one turns out to be 16" frame, which I think is gonna be too small.
I'll start looking at Kona's and the pother brands you suggested - though it would be ideal to have a british made frame, but not a deal breaker of course. I can't expect to be that picky
As for servicing, I'm reasonably confident about that, having serviced & part rebuilt my motorcycles in the past. Just need to ensure I understand bicycle specifics with regard to all that. The more I think about it, the more I read all the interesting stuff here, the more I'm convinced owning & running a retro would be highly rewarding. Cheers.

 

[Renevator]

£695 seems top dollar for a '97 P7, and I'd imagine would be on the big side for you. The £250 one you mentioned sounds more reasonable and likely a better fit. Where did you see these bikes advertised for sale?
The fit of a bike is very personal, everyone is different (short legs/long body/ long arms etc), but you can easily make things easier on your back by for example changing from flat handlebars to riser bars, fitting a shorter stem/stem with a higher degree of rise, moving the saddle fore/aft.
You can easily fit suspension forks to a P7, still plenty of decent working ones around.
And any parts you swap out will still have value, so could be sold to offset the cost of the replacement parts fitted.

If you use Facebook then there's a good retro Orange owners group on there with similar discussions...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/538816663129641/?ref=share
And obviously good P7's at reasonable prices often come up for sale on the forum here, so it may be worth waiting a while, or posting a Wanted ad on here in the relevant section of the forum & see what comes up.

Good choice of bike regardless

Cheers Jimo, I didn't know about the retro Orange owners group - I'll have a look.
The cheaper one came up as just a comment by the owner on another thread, so not actually advertised - I've just been chatting with the owner.
The expensive one - well, yes, it is steep, but I guess I got attracted by the lovely shiny look of it

1997 Orange P7

I think both options aren't ideal unfortunately, but the cheaper one 16" frame maybe so?? - but I'll keep looking tho as I'm not in a great rush. Thanks again - great advice

 

[Spankyfart]

Nice frame, the XT thumbies are nice and the Zoggie Z1 is really nice. I wouldn't want a suspension but those were vg bitd.
The rest is cheap LX gear, not worth the 700 quid.
Wheelset, I can't decipher those.

 

[Markybeau]

Be patient. The right bike will come up. Listen to some of the advice these guys have given. Don't rush into anything. At the moment we are in a buyers market. There will be a good deal out there.

You can do a lot better than a P7 for £700. A lot better. And if you want a British made frame, then I might be being a bit pedantic, but an Orange P7 isn't that.

You might find Kona, or even Marin, a more comfortable ride.