Marin Team Titanium - modern build

[Quibble]

Ok - start with a disclaimer!! Please don't shoot me and yes, in know I'm potentially asking for help in sacrilege!

So, I have a Marin Team Titanium that I've had since about 2000 (it's a 1995 frame). Over the years it's been used as it should be so it's far from pristine. I keep looking at new metal and then flip back to my Marin and wonder.....

..... Ultimately it's still a really light hardtail so could I make it more modern by slackening the head angle and lengthening the forks (currently running Pace RC38 Airforce ii).......

..... Or is it just a waste of time and I should consider a newer bike if I want newer handling??

Thx

 

[CTK]

Newer bike for newer handling. I think RC38s are probably the longest forks suitable for your frame.

 

[LongboardSi]

the trouble with slackening the head angle, is whatever benefits may come with it will be offset by raising the Bottom Bracket height. I'd be very cautious.

By all means try it, but don't be surprised if it actually rides better as intended. Modernising with wide range cassettes, clutch mechs, 1x (if that's your thing) etc won't have an impact on overall handling characteristics, but the trouble with geometry stuff, is everything has to work together - start altering one thing and you then need to change lots of other stuff for it to get back in balance, and some of those changes aren't so straight forward (like altering the BB height).

 

[drcarlos]

the trouble with slackening the head angle, is whatever benefits may come with it will be offset by raising the Bottom Bracket height. I'd be very cautious.

By all means try it, but don't be surprised if it actually rides better as intended. Modernising with wide range cassettes, clutch mechs, 1x (if that's your thing) etc won't have an impact on overall handling characteristics, but the trouble with geometry stuff, is everything has to work together - start altering one thing and you then need to change lots of other stuff for it to get back in balance, and some of those changes aren't so straight forward (like altering the BB height).

How much will it raise it though?

Some fairly basic fag packet maths done without the aid of CAD or anything.

If you went from an 80mm fork to a 120mm you raise the front by about 35mm (minus about 5mm for the account of its not straight up but along an angle). as the BB is about 1/2 (probably closer to the pivot point of the rear axle than the front) way down the bike it will be raise by around 50% of the 35mm so around 17.5mm, which is less than an inch in old money. As long as you don't go mental and crank up the front end to a set of 170mm Lyriks (which I doubt would come with a straight steerer anyway) the change will be small anyway.
Worth a try I reckon, as a lot of the scare stories will be started by manufacturers that want you to buy a new bike/frame.

 

[CTK]

Re:

Air force 2 forks are 100mm already I think? I really don't think its worth going longer on the same frame.

 

[Bimly]

Slackening the head angle will also effect the steering . It's going to steer slower if the front wheels fork offset is bigger. This tied with pushing the front up.......could end up like swedish chopper!

 

[mk one]

Yes you can, but it could take away what was good about the bike.

Easy enough to change the headangle, more and more companies make angled headsets now, used to be only one back in the day, and they were dear. Fitting a angleset will lower the bb height too, a lot of people use them to fit longer forks with the slacker angles being a nice side effect. So you could run a 120-140 fork with a angleset and still have a nice riding bike. Depends on what you expect from the changes. A lot of people only really notice the changes when pushing limits, if you are just going to be using it for normal xc riding then there are better ways to spend the money to make the bike better. Dont be swept up by the marketing hype about you need certain angles to enjoy the ride

Mark

 

[elite504]

Re:

Hmmm, interesting question, and one that caught my eye as I've been here before.
Modern bikes, slack at the front, higher. Slack = slower steering, so the stems get shorter. Bars get wider to add leverage and give somewhere for your arms to be. BUT size-for-size, a modern rig is going to be over an inch longer. This just makes your back hurt if you're used to 90's XC racer long. Plus your seat angle goes slack, and the BB goes up.

Been there, tried it. Handled like a Swedish chopper.
Tools for jobs. Keep 90's xc retro, and nineties and XC.

For modern trail centre fun, get a modern rig, or rent one. Most trail centres actually offer decent rigs to rent.

 

[LongboardSi]

the trouble with slackening the head angle, is whatever benefits may come with it will be offset by raising the Bottom Bracket height. I'd be very cautious.

By all means try it, but don't be surprised if it actually rides better as intended. Modernising with wide range cassettes, clutch mechs, 1x (if that's your thing) etc won't have an impact on overall handling characteristics, but the trouble with geometry stuff, is everything has to work together - start altering one thing and you then need to change lots of other stuff for it to get back in balance, and some of those changes aren't so straight forward (like altering the BB height).

How much will it raise it though?

Some fairly basic fag packet maths done without the aid of CAD or anything.

If you went from an 80mm fork to a 120mm you raise the front by about 35mm (minus about 5mm for the account of its not straight up but along an angle). as the BB is about 1/2 (probably closer to the pivot point of the rear axle than the front) way down the bike it will be raise by around 50% of the 35mm so around 17.5mm, which is less than an inch in old money. As long as you don't go mental and crank up the front end to a set of 170mm Lyriks (which I doubt would come with a straight steerer anyway) the change will be small anyway.
Worth a try I reckon, as a lot of the scare stories will be started by manufacturers that want you to buy a new bike/frame.

Maths sounds right, but you'd be surprised how much difference even 10mm of extra BB height makes to the feel of a bike. I'm not sure on the Geometry of a '95 Marin Ti, but it may be that even an 80mm suspension fork is pushing the limits of what it's designed to work well with. I took 35mm off a mid 90's frame by swapping rigid forks, and it transformed it from a bit vague but hard to tell what it didn't like about it into something actually much nicer to ride.

Also, when you get into angled headsets, you'll struggle to get much of an angle on a 1 1/8 steerer (much easier with modern tapered/44mm/1.5" headtubes, as there is just more room to play with), especially if the frame is a larger size, with a longer headtube.

Si F

 

[mk one]

Also, when you get into angled headsets, you'll struggle to get much of an angle on a 1 1/8 steerer (much easier with modern tapered/44mm/1.5" headtubes, as there is just more room to play with), especially if the frame is a larger size, with a longer headtube.

Si F

True, you still can get +/- 1deg though, which will lower the bb and enable you to run longer forks.

There are a few threads on here all about running retro frames with modern parts that may inspire, or make you think twice