L'Eroica Britannia 2015

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Montello":1bfmqc63 said:
If you are not into the full package I'd not bother, last year the naysayers stayed away and the atmosphere was excellent. Last thing the event needs is a load of whingers turning up bringing down the vibe ...

I suspected as much, it seemed to be a big success so no point messing with a good package.
My problem is I keep swinging one way then the other (oooer Missus) so I'm still on the fence really despite my previous post!

It's probably down to the fact that I love camping, haven't done it for years and I love gawping at old bikes. There, I've talked myself into it again.

Mark.
 
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Johnsqual":2uxtvdon said:
@Daccordimark:

Do this instead: http://www.pendlewitchesvintagevelo.co.uk/

Organised by people with their heart in the right place, all monies go to charity.

I've done it for the last three years and the charity aspect is what makes me more than happy to pay the small entry fee.

It's a great event that even the allowed new bikes can't spoil. I'll be there again next year - maybe with a different bike.

Mark.
 
Have to admit I've never done it, but it seems like an event worth supporting anyway.

I'll try to get in for next year, maybe I can link it up to a family visit from Belgium.

Looks like you'll have to go for the Retro Ronde then. Follow in the footsteps (or tyre tracks) of Merckx, De Vlaeminck, Magni, Museeuw, Boonen, Cancellara. Go on, you know it makes sense :)
 
I don't know what attracts the negative comments.

Profit is not a dirty word, I want the organisers to make a profit so they will develop the event and run it again in future years.

If you don't like what's on offer with this event don't go ... Moaning on a forum won't change the nature of the event.

The good news is the event sold out last year so seems there are plenty of people who do like this format so long may it continue. Moaners are not needed.
 
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If moaning on a forum won't change the event, why did the organisers withdraw their ageist and discriminatory ban on older people taking part in the longest route (after online criticism)?
And why did they withdraw their attempt to move the event to a new location (an attempt that goes against the core principles of the real Eroica - which is about preserving a unique and threatened feature of the landscape)?
In those cases, the moaners 'won' - they forced the organisers to make the event better. If the criticisms on here didn't change anything, it was because the organisers are too arrogant to listen Retrobikers - and if they choose to ignore us like that, I don't think they deserve our support.

It is also completely and utterly wrong to suggest that an event needs to be profitable to be either good quality or sustainable - as is proved by the Retro Ronde, La Savoureuse, Pendle Witches and countless smaller scale events here in Belgium and the Netherlands. These events all survive because they are run by people who care a lot about cycling, not people who will run for the hills when the profits dry up and Retro is no longer cool.

Similarly, there's nothing wrong with making a profit as long as you treat the people who help you fairly. The organisers of LEB were touting for volunteers to help them run a profit making event. This seems wrong to me. While it might be too costly to pay all the stewards a full rate, the organisers could surely offer something better than a sandwich and a goody bag full of free publicity crap from the sponsors. How about free entry to the next event? Or paying at least a small amount, as is done for race stewards here in Belgium?

I was genuinely gutted when I first saw the Eroic Britannia website. They took a brilliant event (the real Eroica), and turned it into something the contestants on The Aprrentice would come up with.
 
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Johnsqual":23y0dio3 said:
It is also completely and utterly wrong to suggest that an event needs to be profitable to be either good quality or sustainable

I didn't say that; different events run in different ways ... this one is commercial and as such if it is to continue it needs to be profitable ... all power to events that function from different models.

Johnsqual":23y0dio3 said:
... not people who will run for the hills when the profits dry up and Retro is no longer cool.

Do you actually know the organisers?

Johnsqual":23y0dio3 said:
While it might be too costly to pay all the stewards a full rate, the organisers could surely offer something better than a sandwich and a goody bag full of free publicity crap from the sponsors. How about free entry to the next event? Or paying at least a small amount,

I have no idea how this was arranged but I can say all the people I met at the event seemed very happy about what they were doing ... I didn't get the impression they were victims / exploited labour ...

I still dunno why you have such a downer on an event which you didn't even attend but have very strong views over ...
 
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All power indeed to those other events, that's why I want to make people aware of the various preferable, more fairly priced alternatives to L'Eroica Britannia. Of course, commercial events depend to some extent on destroying potential competitors in order to gain a monopoly. Look what happened to the Scottish version of Eroica, for example - they were forced to stop using the Eroica name, even though their event was arguably closer in spirit to the real thing.

I don't personally know the organisers, since they seem to want to remain anonymous, and certainly were not willing to come on here to discuss their event.
Whether I know them or not, if/when there's no more commercial benefit to be had, presumably their event will die off - that was the choice of the organisers (whoever they are) in opting for a commercial model - as you point out. But hopefully the other retro and vintage events will continue.

I certainly know that some of the stall holders were disappointed by the way they were treated, due to excessive fees and excessive bureaucracy, for example.
And whether the volunteer stewards were happy or not, a free sandwich and a goody bag of promo crap is pretty stingy payment for a day's work, however you look at it. Could the organisers not find it in themselves to be a bit more generous towards people who gave up their time to help them make money?

I happened to be in England the weekend of LEB and thought of going to look at the free festival but I had to work so it wasn't possible.
As for entering, I would have to be pretty dumb to pay 70 quid for a sportive when I can do any number of similar events over here in Belgium for prices starting at just 10 euro. Even the most famous Sportives like the Ronde Van Vlaanderen are a fraction of the cost of LEB, and that's to ride one of cycling's monument race routes.

I'm sorry you struggle to understand my objections. I suppose there are so many things to dislike about LEB, it's hard to know when to start/stop. Of course, being slagged off as a moaner for daring to raise some criticisms (occasionally even constructive ones) doesn't help.
 
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Johnsqual":fb8f4qzj said:
I suppose there are so many things to dislike about LEB, it's hard to know when to start/stop.

Quite how you have managed to develop such rabid negativity about an event you have not even attended I don't know ....

Anyway all I know is ... I went, I had a good time, I met lots of other riders who were also having a good time, all the staff, stall holders and marshalls also appeared to be having a good time ... so I plan to go again ... it is that simple.

The only negative experience I have of the event has been on this forum from people who didn't go ...
 
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Here are the main reasons why I dislike the event - none of them are directly to do with the price (despite repeated accusations that people on here are just ' moaning' about the cost. If 70 quid is what it costs to organise a good UK event in line with the real version, so be it.

1) The organisers used (or tried to use) unpaid volunteers to run a for-profit event. I think this is wrong, and they could have at least been more generous in what they gave the volunteers. The LEB website is not clear about the fact this is a profit making event, so maybe the volunteers were unaware of this.

2) The real Eroica was set up to save the Strade Bianche from being paved over. LEB is in a national park which is already protected, so LEB is not really doing anything extra to protect an endangered environment or make it more accessible. There are areas like the Ridgeway where access for cyclists is a problem so an opportunity to do something positive was missed.

3) Events like L'Eroica and the Retro Ronde are part of networks of other local rides that support and promote each other, generating a choice of events. LEB clearly sees itself as in competition with other rides ('only official UK route' etc), and does not seem to want to promote or encourage others to set up similar events in the UK (see again the Scottish Eroica).

4) There is no meaningful or clear charity contribution from the event (except a rather obscure 'partnership' with the pseudo-charity Movember foundation). That contrasts with the real Eroica, which sells a number of tickets at a higher price to raise money for charity.

5) The real Eroica has unlimited entry for women and older men (65+). No such attempt to encourage underrepresented groups at LEB, as far as I can see [edit - there may have been a discount for over 65s].

6) The organisers were in my view dishonest in only announcing that the festival would be free after getting the registrations in. Why not be open and tell everyone that entry to the festival is free from the start?

7) It's hard to see how LEB can generate a lot of economic benefit for the local area if it's held on a sealed-off site. That contrasts with the Retro-Ronde, La Savoureuse and L'Eroica, all of which are held in the heart of their respective towns and thus generate some business for shops, hotels and so on. There is talk of 1.5 million being spent in the Peak District that weekend on the LEB website, but that's pretty meaningless without any further context - is that much more than usual? Was it spent on the LEB site or outside?

:cool: Some basic aspects like the showers and some of the signposting were not up to scratch, apparently. Again, a sign the organisers weren't putting cyclists first. Compare that to, e.g., La Savoureuse, who managed to get the signposting spot on from their very first event, and also provided an excellent 'camion balai' service.

9) One of the stallholders I met at the real Eroica said the fees were so high he struggled just to break even, and the stallholders were treated as subcontractors and had to do most of the work (admin, risk assessments etc) themselves. A pretty shabby way to treat those people. The same guy was pretty surprised when I told him it was only about 20 euro to have a stand at the Retro Ronde bike jumble.

10) The organisers use part of the the national cycling network, which is set up and supported by Sustrans. No credit or thanks is given to Sustrans for their part in setting up the NCN, and there is no evidence of any donation or co-operation with that group. Again, an opportunity to do some broader good for UK cycling seems to have been missed.

As I said, it would be great if the organisers addressed some or all of these problems, and if they did, I would congratulate them wholeheartedly and might try to take part if it's possible. However, I suspect they will be too busy writing airy marketing guff for next year's event.

In any case, given that several of my objections are ethical, and given that I don't need to attend the event to know that I don't like these aspects, it would be silly of me to hand over my money to the organisers.

At the moment, I feel like people in the UK are still missing out on a good, properly organised, affordable event that benefits the local area and does something long term and constructive for cycling.
 
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