Lance Armstrong again....

[DA-EVO]

Who gives a shit?
I don't.
He was the best cyclist on the planet for a long time.
Nothing anyone claims now will erase that.
All the legal bullshit is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. They had seven years or more to nail him, and they tried, but couldn't.
Amen.

If you are happy with that, fine. This thread is about the court case and ruling and I don't really have a side to sit on. But this is probably the start of a lot of stuff coming out the woodwork and it affects the sport I love so the next few weeks will be very interesting indeed.

 

[sylus]

Sorry to pick out your posts, but again:

No worries, the discussion is well mannered

You copy and pasted a part but did not reply to the suggestion that the other 5 appear to being used to make the issue appear it's just not all about Lance and the witch hunt against him

You also did not mention the point that the usda cannot be seen as a reliable source if by their own admission they felt Lance had been doing this for years but they were unable to catch him for most of that and what they did have was very inconclusive.

On that basis we have a body that has been failing for decades, unable to guarranty what they get, what they actually know, what it is, from that they make allegations based on ..we suspect, we think, we are not sure.

With no definitive proof, only suppositions and guesswork as I suggested earlier..they seem to be throwing mud and hoping something,anything sticks

He has retired from road racing so why to challenge this now? It seems very peculiar and I suspect it will do more harm to the usda, the world governing body and those involved in this witch hunt..more than it will damage Lance

 

[suburbanreuben]

Who gives a shit?
I don't.
He was the best cyclist on the planet for a long time.
Nothing anyone claims now will erase that.
All the legal bullshit is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. They had seven years or more to nail him, and they tried, but couldn't.
Amen.

If you are happy with that, fine. This thread is about the court case and ruling and I don't really have a side to sit on. But this is probably the start of a lot of stuff coming out the woodwork and it affects the sport I love so the next few weeks will be very interesting indeed.

I'm happy with that. This thread isnot about a court ru,ling. It's about a man saying I really can't be fucked any more. I can sympathasise with that.If you've nearly pegged out, life really is too short. Why would he give a shit what you or anyone else think.

 

[DA-EVO]

Sorry to pick out your posts, but again:

No worries, the discussion is well mannered

You copy and pasted a part but did not reply to the mention that the other 5 athletes appear to being used to make the issue appear it's just not all about Lance and the witch hunt against him

You also did not mention the point that the usda cannot be seen as a reliable source if by their own admission they felt Lance had been doing this for years but they were unable to catch him for most of that and what they did have was very inconclusive.

On that basis we have a body that has been failing for decades, unable to guarranty what they get they actually know, what it is, from that they make allegations based on ..we suspect, we think, we are not sure but with no definitive proof only suppositions as I suggested earlier..they seem to be throwing mud and hoping something,anything sticks

as I mentioned he has retired from road racing so why to challenge this now? It seems very peculiar and I suspect it will do more harm to the usda, the world governing body and those involved in this witch hunt..more than it will damage Lance

USADA are in a very awkward place if WADA or the UCI or USAC decide not to accept the sanction and then decide to take this to The Court of Arbitration for Sport. All of this could be undone and that Agency would potentially be toast. This could happen, not sure how likely it would be but certainly possible. And yes, it is much more likely to damage them than Armstrong if it is reversed.

It would also put US sport in an awkward place as they would need a new ADA, plus it would put a lot of previously ruled cases into question.

As for the other 5, they are team doctors, managers and so on. One of them is Dr. Michelle Ferrari, and he hit the headlines in Italy again yesterday. The Italian Authority made it an offence to use his services in any sport a number of years ago, Pozzato (Italian cyclist) has just been suspended pending an investigation that he was training with Ferrari. http://sport.panorama.it/doping-interce ... -esclusivo (Italian, Google translate doesn't help either really).

The Team manager, Bruyneel is also under investigation in this and asserts that USADA have no authority over him, however, he is going ahead with arbitration on this.

Pepi Marti was the trainer of Contador and was accused by Landis of being 'his drug dealer' http://asia.eurosport.com/cycling/landi ... tory.shtml He didn't respond to the court and was given a lifetime Ban. he then asked to go to Arbitration and was allowed. That in itself is interesting as it could open the door for a rethink by other parties.

Do I think this is over?

No way, I doubt the large lady has even put on her dress or lipstick yet.

 

[marky2484]

I love the sport. I loved it then. I love it now.

My particular hero , for sheer charisma, from that period?

Marco Pantani.


Go figure. It was what it was.

 

[DA-EVO]

I love the sport. I loved it then. I love it now.

My particular hero , for sheer charisma, from that period?

Marco Pantani.


Go figure. It was what it was.

Absolutely agree and I just finished reading a book about him.

For me? probably Fignon.

 

[DA-EVO]

I'm happy with that. This thread isnot about a court ru,ling. It's about a man saying I really can't be **** any more. I can sympathasise with that.If you've nearly pegged out, life really is too short. Why would he give a shit what you or anyone else think.

I can see his point entirely, this has been going on forever. His Legacy is still bigger than cycling and that is not going to change for a lot of people. And I will repeat, I really don't have an opinion on the case, just have been following it and others because its something I read on a lot. Was the same with Ricco, Contador, Rasmussen and so on.

And I have no thought in my mind that he could give a shit about my opinion, that would be ridiculous.

 

[matthew71]

still not sure what to think about all this, i have loved pro cycling since the lemond hinault battles of the late 80,s. but looking back i think if lance is guilty then who else is ? or more importantly who is a clean rider from the past 30 years ?

 

[NeilM]

I am watching this all as very much an outsider. I have just finished reading David Millar's book, so have at least his story to use in order to put this all into context, but the question that keeps coming back is : What is the point?

What exactly are the USADA trying to achieve?

Are they saying that they will tackle drug cheats, no matter who they are and how big, or are they really trying to discredit Armstrong, if so, why?

Have they got similar back dated cases going on with other athletes from different disciplines? If not, then why just Armstrong?

I really don't think the USADA give a hoot about the UCI and the consequences for cycling, I really think they are just trying to send a message out to the USA, possibly more to swimmers, athletes, football (not soccer) players etc to say, 'if you cheat, we will get you'. Otherwise, none of this time effort and money makes much sense.

 

[Neil]

The way I've read it - and have for some time - is that really they have a goal of nailing him - as sylus suggested, it seems an entire focus on him, and for quite a period - the other stuff (people / offences) just seem on the periphery almost as a kind of excuse - "Look, it's not just an vendetta about him - look we're going after these other people, mumble, in order to get him, mumble..."

My other concern about witch-hunts like this, is the perception that seems prevalent in the general public, when an athlete is caught for drug offences - most normal people then just see an athletes lifetime of achievements just down to drugs / doping, and effectively null and void, whereas all the other people - peers and competitors of their time - just A-OK, and they couldn't possibly have "cheated" as they didn't get caught.

If the best he'd done was place 39th in a Tour, nobody would care - regardless of what people are saying, this really all is about him. never more was it true: it is about the biker.

Whether some people like him, or hate him, find him arrogant or find him inspirational, want to shot him down in flames or want to defend his honour - none of those things should be factors in him being pursued and investigated, yet I can't help but feel that at least some of those factors are coming to bear by some involved - either that, or the people involved are doing a piss-poor job of ensuring that's not the perception of many observers.