It's kicking off in London...

[gibbleking]

spent 17 years on and off in advanced education....not much need to enquire anymore...irony is all my qualifacations are just used to fill a plastic bag in a draw somewhere and have not really been needed...educated to degree level and all i do now is teach kids to ride bikes...much more fun then trying to solve the worlds woes...

 

[sgw]

irony is all my qualifacations

Indeed!

 

[pigman]

...irony is all my qualifacations are just used to fill a plastic bag in a draw somewhere and have not really been needed...

know what you mean, many similarities here too. Although I have used them in the past (many moons ago) to open doors, once at work & in the real world for the past 25 years, they are about as useful/relevant as a bike on the titanic. It seems to me that those who continue to pursue academia seem to be highly engrossed in their subject area, but very detached from common issues.

 

[gibbleking]

Perhaps i should have got my driving liscence sooner.tis my only regret as i had to turn work down as a direct result many times.was too pricey for a long time

 

[sgw]

It seems to me that those who continue to pursue academia seem to be highly engrossed in their subject area, but very detached from common issues.

There may be some truth in that but these protests are not about those sort of people. These cuts and charges are not to hit the people at the upper end of academia. They are specifically targeted at children from poorer backgrounds and will undoubtedly result in even the first steps to higher education being denied them.

These cuts even include the Education Maintenance Allowance, a payment scheme for 16- to 19-year-olds from low-income backgrounds to support them through 6th form and technical collages. It won't affect the OxBridge intellectual elite.

Nor are they intended to significantly affect the financial deficit. Current government and independent forecasts expect the deficit to be sorted by 2015. Not a single penny from the intended 3x increase in fees will be paid back by that time.

These plans are just the start of a widespread attack on the poorest people in this country on behalf of the richest. They expose long held ambitions of the Conservatives and the current financial situation is being used as an excuse. With all the tacit support for the ConDem dream in this thread I would have thought that at least one would have the courage of their convictions to present some rational justification.

So far all that has been offered is aggression, prejudice and misinformation.

 

[NickD]

SGW, that comes across as paranoia and reflects the views i see from friends in their early 20s.

I support no political party and probably never will - i don't feel represented and I was as disappointed by Labour as I am by ConLib.
- but it puts me in an ideal place to view the bigotry (and that's what it is, dictionary defined) against any major party that isn't labour, and it mainly comes from students and those with the time to get annoyed about it. the sad reality is that most people over 30 are too busy dealing with their own life to worry about it.

I was as disappointed by Labour as I am by ConLib.

On the subject of the class divide, I was working as labourer just before going to uni and my workmates regarded students as spongers. I suspect there is significant support for the covenment on this amongst the very class you feel are being oppressed.

I have to agree with the others above, although i don't regret my degree - in fact I enjoyed it - it has been of no real help in my career. I probably wouldn't go now, but that opinion has been the same since tuition fees were brought in, I didn't see those go during 10+ years of labour government.

Finally, IMHO, the protests may have had some impact initially, but after a few days of the same thing they begin to smack of childish petulance.

 

[silverclaws]

Prejudice is appearing to be very thick on the ground, what with Tory advisors revealing the inner ideals of tory policy via recent gaffes. First Lord Young and his comment about Britons never having it so good during the so called recession, then Howard Flight and his words about the poor being encouraged to breed and now I only heard this morning Claire Perry questioning whether the poor are fit to have children. Just three comments by three tory government advisors in recent weeks, it is not painting the tories in a good light, with suggestions that they are to be known as the nasty party.

Freedom of speech is a good thing and I encourage it, for the more that is said and recorded for presentation to the populace, the more truth comes to light.

But as an aside, words and how they interest me, I wondered at the etymology of the word 'con' as a shortened term for conservative and lookee, see what I found, the word con as in swindle in the same paragraph as conservative ;

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=con&searchmode=none

But indeed for a con as swindle to be effective, the confidence of the victim has to assured, now does that not have any similarity to the way a government works ?

They need our confidence in order for their policies to work.

 

[Easy_Rider]

...First Lord Young and his comment about Britons never having it so good during the so called recession...

There is truth in that though, there are many Britons who have tracker mortgages close to paying it off, or maybe close to retirement with a good final salary pension lined up, these Britons have seen there disposable income increase during the recession as their salaries have stayed the same but interest rates have plumeted. It's just that at the opposite end off society there are many Britons in or heading into trouble.

 

[sgw]

SGW, that comes across as paranoia and reflects the views i see from friends in their early 20s.

Thanks for a considered response, a welcome and refreshing change.

I don't think you know me well enough or have read the thread carefully enough to make your arbitrary diagnosis of immature, paranoid, bigot on me though. It takes more than a passing acquaintance on a forum to know someone and I don't think you are justified in poping up just to make disparaging comments about my personality and character. Good job I am used to it and patient. Challenging my comments if you like but name calling, however politely done doesn't get us anywhere.

It is fact, not paranoia, that the cuts will disadvantage the poorest to the advantage of the richest and they are being imposed by a gang of multi millionairs with no electoral mandate to do so.

I share your lack of support for any political party. I resent and reject the whole notion of surrendering to the dictatorship of any political elite. This pamphlet pretty much covers my opinions on Parliament and centralised government:-

http://www.afed.org.uk/ace/ap_index.html

So you see my criticism of the ConDem's is not as you assume the result of factional bigotry. I despise them all!

There is indeed a lot of prejudice among some workers toward students and vice versa. I fail to see the relevance of that truism. Those of each sector who are not prejudiced against the other will resist this attack in solidarity. Those of either side who are blinded by prejudice don't interest me in the least If workers don't see that this is their struggle as much as the students, they are being short sighted. Their own children and grandchildren are the ones who will suffer the worst effects. Alliances are already being built between students and workers to co ordinate further resistance into next year. You haven't seen anything yet.

It never ceases to amaze me how those opposed to any protest, demonstration or direct action often presume that they are in a position to suggest how they should be conducted. The vast majority having never been involved in any real protest activity. Even if they had, if they choose to oppose us, they should hardly be surprised that their tactical advice is of no value whatsoever and rejected as opposition propaganda. Should we take advice on pursuing the conflict in Afghanistan from the Taliban?

Your comment about continuing the protest being childish petulance doesn't accord with any theory on protest I have ever heard of, nor with history, reality or even common sense. You will need to explain further how you think a single protest can exert as much effective pressure as a sustained and co-ordinated campaign. Again I would challenge your qualification and experience to make such a claim.

Your equating my own opinions with those of your 20yr old friends is very weak. But at least it will amuse my grandchildren.

Hope you will accept this post in the spirit of debate in which it is intended and not flounce off only to return to snipe. The thread needs people who are capable of constructing a sentence and have an attention span that can cope with more than two lines.

 

[NickD]

I will send a longer response when not posting from a phone. But until then, I was not resorting to name calling, nor putting forward any theory, my post is based on opinion. I will respond to your individual points later but is your first sentence meant to be as sarcastic as it sounds !