It's kicking off in London...

[sgw]

It's interesting also that it appears the police deliberately left a van abandoned in the middle of the road,seemingly to entice the more right wing element in the otherwise peaceful crowd with a legitimate grievance,to vandalize it.
Reported to be an older model and strangely without number plates. :?

Valid point. Unfortunately due to the more reactionary contributors to the thread finding the whole concept of protest too distressing to even discuss reasonably, I doubt it will be possible to go far with that here. They seem to be determined to shut it down.

Suffice to say that some of the earlier reports of no number plates have been refuted by people who were there and there are photos of the van with number plates fitted. I haven't seen them myself. The "Police Aware" sticker in the window before it was trashed was an amusing touch I think. Doesn't do to loose your sense of humour does it?

It's still very strange but like many things that happen in these situations it is unlikely that we will ever really know. Same with the mysterious fire alarms going off in occupied buildings. Occupiers have to leave the buildings because of the possible consequences if it were genuine. It's inevitable, all tactics and manoeuvres on both sides.

 

[JohnH]

I'm sick and tired of all the whinging from the navel gazing Emo woe is me the govenment is conspiring to keep me unemployed and some new age doctor diagnosed me with HD AADD+, so I should get a free ride......and I'm an artist too.

But FMJ.... Class victimhood is the foundation of socialism.

Back in Victorian times, when people were genuinely bloody poor and child mortality was high, many people really were victims of the tremendous gap in wealth between the "haves" and the "have nots". Not only were they poor, but there wasn't much that they could do about it; such people were genuinely disempowered.

But today, the obstacles that prevent a working class family from improving their situation have been massively reduced. There's every opportunity to better yourself and your situation.

But for some people "empowerment" is scary, because it means that you have to take responsibility of your own life, your own situation and your own destiny. "Empowerment" means that your hands are on the steering wheel (handlebars?) of your own life.

If you don't like the sound of that, then the opposite of "empowerment" is "victimhood". And "victimhood" allows you to spend your life blaming everybody else (the government, the corporations, the aristocracy, the police force) for your situation apart from yourself -- just like Ross said....

I saw one of the students saying they 'had been oppressed for years' on tv the other day!!!!

Ross, this one's for you.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0

 

[pigman]

Back in Victorian times, when people were genuinely bloody poor and child mortality was high, many people really were victims of the tremendous gap in wealth between the "haves" and the "have nots". Not only were they poor, but there wasn't much that they could do about it; such people were genuinely disempowered.

But today, the obstacles that prevent a working class family from improving their situation have been massively reduced. There's every opportunity to better yourself and your situation.

But for some people "empowerment" is scary, because it means that you have to take responsibility of your own life, your own situation and your own destiny. "Empowerment" means that your hands are on the steering wheel (handlebars?) of your own life.

If you don't like the sound of that, then the opposite of "empowerment" is "victimhood". And "victimhood" allows you to spend your life blaming everybody else (the government, the corporations, the aristocracy, the police force) for your situation apart from yourself

well put fella, I'll drink to that

 

[gibbleking]

me too...good comments..

 

[FMJ]

Vaguely on topic at least.

 

[sgw]

JohnH... I have taken the trouble to correct the "misunderstandings" in your last post. I have also linked to relevant articles and reports and included quotes in support of the factual claims. (Always a good idea I think or else people might think your talking rubbish.

If you want to continue your study of Socialism, your really should start another thread. This one is about the student protests and although I see the connections, I think a political education from first bases would take us too far of topic. Don't want to get the thread closed, do we?

(alterations in bold...quotes in italics)

[Back in modern times, when people are genuinely bloody poor and child mortality is high,

"Britain has the second highest child death rate among the 24 richest countries in the world, with infants in the UK twice as likely to die before the age of five as children in Sweden."
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...ality-rate-is-linked-to-inequality-442806.htm

"Britain has one of the most unequal societies in the world, with income inequality ahead of Ireland, Japan, Spain, Canada, Germany and France.
Inequality is worse in England than Wales and Scotland"
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -ever.html


Many people really arevictims of the tremendous gap in wealth between the "haves" and the "have nots". Not only are they poor, but there isn't much that they can do about it; such people are genuinely disempowered.


"Poverty rates are among the worst in Europe, with only Italy, Spain and Greece faring worse."

“It matters more in Britain who your parents are than in many other countries."

"the scale of differences in wealth, for instance, may imply that it is impossible to create a cohesive society.”


But today, the obstacles that prevent a working class family from improving their situation have been increased. There are fewer opportunities to better yourself and your situation."


"Social mobility in England lags behind many other developed countries. Children's opportunities still depend on their background"

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/8639671.stm

"Average and below average White British children are less likely than those from minority ethnic groups to go on to higher education."

"Women are paid 21 per cent less than the national average, despite women into their 40s having better qualifications than men"

I hope PM & GK are not choking on those drinks.

“The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off.”
Gloria Steinem

btw... I agree 100% that self empowerment is crucial and fyi...I am nobodies victim. "Class victimhood" may be a trigger of socialism but universal self empowerment is the way to achieve it.

 

[dyna-ti]

,seemingly to entice the more right wing element in the otherwise peaceful crowd

The Young Conservatives you mean? Or did it come out wrong and you meant something completely different? (Happens to me all the time)

I meant left

Wishful thinking :twisted:

 

[sgw]

DAYX2 – Next Wave of Student Protests

40+ PROTESTS CALLED ACROSS THE UK THIS TUESDAY (30.11.10)

Details and updates:-

http://anticuts.org.uk/?page_id=1258

 

[gibbleking]

must go break something...sorry not choking on any drinks im not an oppressed hard done by student...
i just teach them...

 

[sgw]

im not an oppressed hard done by student

Obviously not! Cheerleading for misinformation doesn't suggest an enquiring mind.

Thanks for the bump anyway.