Hilary Stone
- Thread starter Mowgli
- Start date
christripledot
Retro Newbie
I don't want to add to this sh!tstorm. I just don't like to see a thread go this way.
Different people will always have different expectations of what is reasonable service. @tintin40, you have a right to feel upset about how you've been treated. I too would be displeased if a refund had taken so long. The fact that it was for a small amount is irrelevant. I'm sure your payment to Mr. Stone was prompt, and I don't doubt that his disorganisation was partly the cause of the delayed refund.
But his disorganisation goes hand in hand with the fact that he is an enthusiast, and not a businessman. Lazarus is right to point out that Hilary is an invaluable source of parts, knowledge, and fair pricing, and I think he's just trying to make sure that Hilary's name isn't trashed over what might seem like a small matter to some readers.
There are a few threads around in which people have complained that Mr. Stone doesn't do business as promptly as they would have liked. It is important that prospective buyers are aware that they are not dealing with a business with military precision. This kind of discussion is good for the cycling community. But turning it into a slanging match is no good for anyone, and it muddies the water so that nobody can see clearly.
Different people will always have different expectations of what is reasonable service. @tintin40, you have a right to feel upset about how you've been treated. I too would be displeased if a refund had taken so long. The fact that it was for a small amount is irrelevant. I'm sure your payment to Mr. Stone was prompt, and I don't doubt that his disorganisation was partly the cause of the delayed refund.
But his disorganisation goes hand in hand with the fact that he is an enthusiast, and not a businessman. Lazarus is right to point out that Hilary is an invaluable source of parts, knowledge, and fair pricing, and I think he's just trying to make sure that Hilary's name isn't trashed over what might seem like a small matter to some readers.
There are a few threads around in which people have complained that Mr. Stone doesn't do business as promptly as they would have liked. It is important that prospective buyers are aware that they are not dealing with a business with military precision. This kind of discussion is good for the cycling community. But turning it into a slanging match is no good for anyone, and it muddies the water so that nobody can see clearly.
Lazarus":1sia4ic5 said:
Sorry but that is the most unpleasant post I have read on this forum (I only read the road section and sometimes the off-topic chat).
I don't know HS personally, but I have seen him at every jumble I've ever been to, although he has a stall he is there to buy. I might be wrong but I gather he is a full time dealer buying and selling old bikes, frames and parts etc. The last time I looked at his ebay listings, he had feedback in the thousands.
Therefore he is operating a business, he is not a friend doing you favour by finding rare parts and letting you have it for some pocket change. If his service is not up to standard, then I think it's fair to complain.
The alleged slowness I guess could be because of the huge number of parts he sells and tons of orders he get. If that is the case he should be telling customers that it's going to take a certain amount of time before getting their order delivered.
As for being a cycling enthusiast, so what? Is he the only one? Some fellow cyclists who are not in it for the money might prefer to have the chance to even look at the "good" stuff at a jumble if not for the fact most of it has already been picked off by the professional ebay dealers.
Citoyen du monde
rBotM Winner
tintin40":2td6gah5 said:
I have never purchased a single item for myself from Hilary, nor do I ever expect to need to buy anything from him. I have however counselled a number of friends who have purchased from him and have ultimately been satisfied. The key word is however "ultimately" as there have been a few issues and it has at times required some kind of modification in the terms of the deal or perhaps an occasional return or exchange, as occurred with Timtin40. Hilary has however ALWAYS stood behind his goods (as in the case of Tintin40) and his prices in each case were ALWAYS better than anybody else offering the same items (often he was the only one offering the item). So I think it is only fair that he be extended a little bit of added consideration, as the alternative is to pay more or perhaps not find teh item at all. Other people who, apparently like Tintin40, award money less importance that quick and trouble-free service may be better served to deal with other people. To each his own. This does not however warrant in my eyes the gratuitous and openly provocative closing sentence of Tintin40's post.
As regards Lazarus' comment, I can see where he is coming from in a general sense, as my personal experience has shown me that what he states in a perhaps somewhat aggressive and inelegant manner does in fact reflect what is often the case. Unfortunately blanket statements are not generally helpful in a forum like this, and it is completely possible that Tintin40 is the exception to the rule and not typical of those who generally hold a position like the one he espouses.
I must however admit that my recent ebay experience has shown me that the only ones saying that ebay is the best means of buying vintage bike items are those who are ready to immediately take advantage of sellers whenever they don't get what they want. More often than not, these are the people who are prepared to screw a seller out of their rightful money based upon spurious claims, even when it is clear as day from the auction description/photos that they had no right to expect an item that is any way different from what they got. If a layman can readily recognize a potential issue with an item being sold, then I don't believe the buyer ever has a right to complain if they have not asked questions highlighting the potential issue prior to bidding and received a reply that clearly contradicts the actual state of the item.
I hope that Tintin40 represents the exception to my general experience both with ebay and those who complain even after they have been made whole on what is clearly a minor transaction.
Hi everyone 
OK, had a quick re-read of what I posted, sorry to all of those offended by my choice of words, but sometimes choice english gets to the point quicker. I stand by my point, " that it was an OTT lambasting for just £7 with an unnecessary sneeky dig thrown in for anyone who hasn't lost out to him." Moreover, just because someone has 17,000+ posts in here and has been around the site since its opening doesn't give them the right to lose themselves and have a poke at anyone who dares to put a more balanced view on things by quoting their own experiences. Perhaps the point was made when the title said it all "3 weeks & no sign of a £7 refund" and no one cared.
I guess its fair to say that HS (who in all likelyhood doesn't even know this thread exists, so can't defend themselves anyways) is slow off the mark with small items & small refunds. Perhaps he should go on "The Apprentice" sharpen his skills (yes it is silly what I'm saying, just like the comments where). I suspect he just doesn't care enough about the £7 or who he took it from (which seems to be the real issue).
I rarely get wrankled by internet posts, but some folk made honest comments re: good experiences of HS, thus balancing the truth, only to be goaded by someone who wants their £7 back. I admit my own words were more forthright and less concealed, but the impact was no less on readers than being called fanclub members just because they dared to tell the truth.
My offer stands firm, send me your PP details and it'll be in your account in no time. Why will I do this ? Because what goes around comes around, and the truth of the matter is "many many decent folk are being screwed by genuine scammers for very large sums of money, and don't know where to turn or what to do next." Threads like this (especially since my outburst) put genuine balanced information out there about who's doing what & to whom Christ knows it needs to be somewhere, I see so many get stung by people who live to screw hard earned cash out of genuine buyers.
This current boom in vintage cycles powered by a younger generation & rekindled enthusiasm for genuine cycling history is to be welcomed and encouraged. HS manages to get his hands on hard to find parts because he knows his stuff. For that alone I personally will cut someone a fair amount of slack. Why ? Because odds are they are not 23, 33, 43 years old, they are more likely from the old school generation which means they are not spring chickens. Most of all I'll cut him slack because he does what few will do, "hunt down & make available rare / hard to find kit for genuine enthusiasts", so few make this effort. For that I'll happily donate the lost £7 in question.
Many thanks to those who have posted after me, your eloquent choice of words put this matter back in a better light, and I stand corrected for my own anger The last 3-4 posts show any watchers that there are folk in here whose collective knowledge means that no matter who you are, someone will know you.
Apologies again to all those offended, but read between the lines, and you'll see that the last 4 posts more than make up for my outburst. I think its fair to say that HS is now in the open, we know he trawls fairs for his stuff, is slow off the mark, very slow with refunds, but also appears to be a genuine person who delivers to the best of their ability. He is not Dellboy (but maybe Rodders), but he's also not Halfords, BUT, and its the but worth remembering, he is 1 of a few who are making the effort to stop this old stuff disappearing for ever. So he's not doing it for free, who would, but most wouldn't do it even for a lot of money. Maybe with a little guidance he'll become a businessman (like some want), but I suspect he'll just go on doing his best because he's to old to change now. I say good luck to him, the boom won't last long, and anything his detective work has saved will live to last another day for the next generations skip/bin.
Yours Laz.
PS: yes I am a c**t, a very big 1, but also a friendly 1 not afraid to speak his mind
OK, had a quick re-read of what I posted, sorry to all of those offended by my choice of words, but sometimes choice english gets to the point quicker. I stand by my point, " that it was an OTT lambasting for just £7 with an unnecessary sneeky dig thrown in for anyone who hasn't lost out to him." Moreover, just because someone has 17,000+ posts in here and has been around the site since its opening doesn't give them the right to lose themselves and have a poke at anyone who dares to put a more balanced view on things by quoting their own experiences. Perhaps the point was made when the title said it all "3 weeks & no sign of a £7 refund" and no one cared.I guess its fair to say that HS (who in all likelyhood doesn't even know this thread exists, so can't defend themselves anyways) is slow off the mark with small items & small refunds. Perhaps he should go on "The Apprentice" sharpen his skills (yes it is silly what I'm saying, just like the comments where). I suspect he just doesn't care enough about the £7 or who he took it from (which seems to be the real issue).
I rarely get wrankled by internet posts, but some folk made honest comments re: good experiences of HS, thus balancing the truth, only to be goaded by someone who wants their £7 back. I admit my own words were more forthright and less concealed, but the impact was no less on readers than being called fanclub members just because they dared to tell the truth.
My offer stands firm, send me your PP details and it'll be in your account in no time. Why will I do this ? Because what goes around comes around, and the truth of the matter is "many many decent folk are being screwed by genuine scammers for very large sums of money, and don't know where to turn or what to do next." Threads like this (especially since my outburst) put genuine balanced information out there about who's doing what & to whom
Christ knows it needs to be somewhere, I see so many get stung by people who live to screw hard earned cash out of genuine buyers.This current boom in vintage cycles powered by a younger generation & rekindled enthusiasm for genuine cycling history is to be welcomed and encouraged. HS manages to get his hands on hard to find parts because he knows his stuff. For that alone I personally will cut someone a fair amount of slack. Why ? Because odds are they are not 23, 33, 43 years old, they are more likely from the old school generation which means they are not spring chickens. Most of all I'll cut him slack because he does what few will do, "hunt down & make available rare / hard to find kit for genuine enthusiasts", so few make this effort. For that I'll happily donate the lost £7 in question.
Many thanks to those who have posted after me, your eloquent choice of words put this matter back in a better light, and I stand corrected for my own anger
The last 3-4 posts show any watchers that there are folk in here whose collective knowledge means that no matter who you are, someone will know you.Apologies again to all those offended, but read between the lines, and you'll see that the last 4 posts more than make up for my outburst. I think its fair to say that HS is now in the open, we know he trawls fairs for his stuff, is slow off the mark, very slow with refunds, but also appears to be a genuine person who delivers to the best of their ability. He is not Dellboy (but maybe Rodders), but he's also not Halfords, BUT, and its the but worth remembering, he is 1 of a few who are making the effort to stop this old stuff disappearing for ever. So he's not doing it for free, who would, but most wouldn't do it even for a lot of money. Maybe with a little guidance he'll become a businessman (like some want), but I suspect he'll just go on doing his best because he's to old to change now. I say good luck to him, the boom won't last long, and anything his detective work has saved will live to last another day for the next generations skip/bin.
Yours Laz.
PS: yes I am a c**t, a very big 1, but also a friendly 1 not afraid to speak his mind
ScottishRetro
Devout Dirtbag
I suppose it comes down to new school ideas on mailorder item's.. I do remember a time when if you sent anything back to a supplier you could and would wait up to 28 days for a refund, most places these days do give swift refunds and that is what we are use to..
Sadly though the new way of doing things has stopped many of the Hilary stones types from bothering to offer a service anymore and as such we have very little to go on now..
I havent bought anything off Hilary but friends have and there was no issues,
I would say it comes down to overlooks rather than underhandedness.. For many people that havent run a webshop I can tell you that email's run into the 1000's almost daily and trying to find the serious stuff from the tyre kickers is a task of it's own..
I ran a small motorcycle webshop and I had to put two people full time on the task of just getting through all the enquires and that is without the time needed to source and ship a items...
Im very happy to have a Chain reaction but im very very sad we are losing the Hilary Stones...
Sadly though the new way of doing things has stopped many of the Hilary stones types from bothering to offer a service anymore and as such we have very little to go on now..
I havent bought anything off Hilary but friends have and there was no issues,
I would say it comes down to overlooks rather than underhandedness.. For many people that havent run a webshop I can tell you that email's run into the 1000's almost daily and trying to find the serious stuff from the tyre kickers is a task of it's own..
I ran a small motorcycle webshop and I had to put two people full time on the task of just getting through all the enquires and that is without the time needed to source and ship a items...
Im very happy to have a Chain reaction but im very very sad we are losing the Hilary Stones...
west green
Old School Hero
I bought a frame from Hilary last year via LFGSS, and I have to vouch for the service and quality as being great. I still look at the bike now and think I got lucky - definitely would have ended up paying more if it had been on ebay. It's a shame that he may not be so organised, but I don't believe it's deliberate, so hope you get it sorted out soon.
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