Has anyone built a Gravel bike using a retro frame

[Prodigal Son]

700c gravel bikes have significantly more BB drop than a 26in mtb and this geo difference translates into significantly different cornering feel. Sure you can ride it on a 26in. Gravel 700c bikes have deeper bb drop than a cyclocross bike. Some people don´t care and all is fair as long as you are having fun on a bike.

 

[Rod_Saetan]

Re:

I'll give it one more go.

Ahh, but is this not the latest industry buzz word for what is effectively just cyclocross ?

What he said ^^ Amazes me how many times marketing can re invent the same wheel.

Cyclocross is a race discipline, it is riding a bike flat out for @ 45 minutes in the mud, you don't have any bottle cages, mudguard mounts or rack mounts on a cross bike, they were traditionally designed with 700c x 30c ish knobbly tyres in mind, 1 gear at the front, the geometry is like a racing road bike, fairly aggressive. A new 'gravel' bike is more upright, slacker angles, wider handlebars, often 650B but at least with a wider tyre than a 35c, it will take a rack, probably a front rack/anything cages too, it has a couple of bottle cage mounts.

1. At my LBS I saw a gravel bike for the first time in Portugal. When I asked how the geometry on this 3 grand bike differs to my 90s steel MTB (the numbers don't lie), the proprietor was visibly irritated, but then he'd prefer to sell a 3 grand bike than encourage a customer to put gravel tires on a 90s MTB.

Maybe he didn't know the geometry differences, I don't, but a NORBA shaped 90s MTB with a 22" top tube and an 80mm head tube isn't going to work for me for instance, it's too long, and too short. Also, yeah, he wants to sell you a bike, it's his job!

3. I did my own gravel / all road ride, 120 km along the St. James way from Porto to Valença, and my 90s steel MTB, the famous Brian Rouke that's been loved by various retrobikers over the years felt tlike the perfect tool for the mix of tarmac, rough back roads, gravel and woodland single track.

A question for those who have one of the various drop-bar off road / gravel bikes: have you ever checked how much faster you the gravel / drop bar bike is on road or gravel, compared to a 90s MTB with fast rolling tyres?

I don't care how much faster I am, for me it isn't about riding something as quick as possible or cock-waving my way through Strava, and I rarely ride the same roads more than once (except the commute) as variety is the spice of life and all that. For me, and I suspect other people as well, it's the convenience of being able to mount bags easily, have a drop bar with multiple positions for comfort and control and roll on the narrower than MTB, but larger than retro MTB 650B x 43 tyre. To flip that question around, how do you know you wouldn't be more comfortable doing that ride on a gravel bike?

Ultimately, you can do those long gravel rides on an MTB, or a retro MTB, or a cross bike, or a hybrid, or a crosstrail, or your mum's shopper, but taking the blinkered opinion that everything new in a shop is merely thought up so Mike Sinyard can put another floor on his house is as bad as thinking the only bike you can use for a gravel ride is a £5k carbon cookie cutter bike from a big company with a titanium mug dangling from the saddle bag. I am in the Industry, I see what they do, I get the resistance, but as well as being fashionable and faddy 'gravel/gnarmac/Grinduro/adventure/all road bikes' are A) getting people out there riding new trails; B) Actually quite good at what they are designed for and; C) based on the bikes your Grandad was riding (assuming he was French, active in the 50s and liked to get out and about).

The OP's question was

Has anyone built a Gravel bike using a retro frame if you have can I see some photos please also was it a worthwhile project or should I stick to riding retro mtb

not 'what is your opinion on a category of bike you haven't even ridden?'

I have built one, it was worthwhile, you can stick to riding retro MTB if you want, or do both, as long as you are out there riding it's all good.

 

[Peachy!]

Just hitching my wagon to this thread for the info, (some of which from Rod_saeton was interesting) but I hope it doesn’t turn into another sour ‘I know more about bikes than you do’ slagging match........ the forum doesn’t need any more of those.

 

[ultrazenith]

Re: Re:

I don't care how much faster I am, for me it isn't about riding something as quick as possible or cock-waving my way through Strava, and I rarely ride the same roads more than once (except the commute) as variety is the spice of life and all that. For me, and I suspect other people as well, it's the convenience of being able to mount bags easily, have a drop bar with multiple positions for comfort and control and roll on the narrower than MTB, but larger than retro MTB 650B x 43 tyre. To flip that question around, how do you know you wouldn't be more comfortable doing that ride on a gravel bike?

Ultimately, you can do those long gravel rides on an MTB, or a retro MTB, or a cross bike, or a hybrid, or a crosstrail, or your mum's shopper, but taking the blinkered opinion that everything new in a shop is merely thought up so Mike Sinyard can put another floor on his house is as bad as thinking the only bike you can use for a gravel ride is a £5k carbon cookie cutter bike from a big company with a titanium mug dangling from the saddle bag. I am in the Industry, I see what they do, I get the resistance, but as well as being fashionable and faddy 'gravel/gnarmac/Grinduro/adventure/all road bikes' are A) getting people out there riding new trails; B) Actually quite good at what they are designed for and; C) based on the bikes your Grandad was riding (assuming he was French, active in the 50s and liked to get out and about).

The OP's question was

Has anyone built a Gravel bike using a retro frame if you have can I see some photos please also was it a worthwhile project or should I stick to riding retro mtb

not 'what is your opinion on a category of bike you haven't even ridden?'

I have built one, it was worthwhile, you can stick to riding retro MTB if you want, or do both, as long as you are out there riding it's all good.

I'm certainly not saying gravel bikes are just a marketing scam, far from it. It make complete sense that for riding on surfaces that are somehow between MTB and road you would use a bike that is somewhere between an MTB and a road bike. There's a continuum of possible ways to build a bike for gravel, depending on preference and the mix of terrain, just like there is a whole continuum of perfectly valid ways to build an MTB or a road bike.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say people who haven't ridden a gravel bike shouldn't comment on them. Does that mean on here the only person who should post in a reader's bikes thread is the actual owner, because he's the only person who has ridden it and knows its ins and outs?

I'm also not sure what's wrong with trying to understand what it is exactly that makes gravel bikes better for gravel riding, so those of us without the wealth to buy a £1000+ bike can adapt our existing bikes to perform OK on gravel. It's a question of making better use of the bikes I already have, for instance, by turning one of my retro bikes into a gravel-ish bike.

 

[Prodigal Son]

Re: Re:

... trying to understand what it is exactly that makes gravel bikes better for gravel riding, so those of us without the wealth to buy a £1000+ bike can adapt our existing bikes to perform OK on gravel. It's a question of making better use of the bikes I already have, for instance, by turning one of my retro bikes into a gravel-ish bike.

What makes a road bike better than a 26in xc vintage mtb on pavement? It goes from the obvious slick tire to subtle geometry parameters. What makes a xc mtb better than a downhill mtb on some trails?
I could go on and on..
If you want to find something close to a gravel bike to try, grab an old touring bike and fit some of the new new gravel tires on it. I believe touring frames are better suited for exploration than cx frames.

 

[CTK]

If you have a retro frame you want to build a "gravel bike" is a good hanger to hang the build on.

 

[Captain Stupido]

I've have built up a couple of retro 26" wheeled MTBs as touring/gravel/expedition bikes with drop bars and fast rolling tyres. I enjoyed them but they never felt as fast or capable on the road as a proper road focused larger wheeled bike. Don't ask me why!

It strikes me that "gravel" bikes are more of a modern take on the classic touring bike (or in retro/90s speak - a hybrid) than they are either an MTB or a cyclocross bike.

At the end of the day the specs and the application are the same - it's a beefed up road bike with uprated brakes, space for chunky tyres, and rack/mudguard mounts. It's meant to be a bike that you can ride fast and comfortably over long distances on varied road surfaces including unpaved paths - not an off-road racing machine.

If I were going to build a "retro" gravel bike I'd look for a 90s hybrid and put drop bars on it. In fact, I've already got a nice 1992 Trek 7900 Multitrack that I might do just that with.

At the end of the day, there is marketing happening, but there is also genuine innovation and change, as well as design for a specific application. It may be designed for the same sort of job, but a modern carbon framed gravel bike with disk brakes and compact geometry is vastly changed from an old-fashioned steel framed touring bike with cantilever brakes.

The touring bike is an old concept. When it was updated as the "hybrid" there were some genuine innovations - but the main change was putting straight bars on. It strikes me that if there's any rebranding going on it's more like the now thoroughly unfashionable hybrid has dropped it's straight bars and got a new label.

Yes, there's fashion, and there's marketing B.S. but there is also gradual technological progress. For me, modern gravel bikes look appealing because I like bikes that can be used as practical fast transport - and that's what they do - and they represent the "state of the art". But I can't really afford one.

 

[Prodigal Son]

I've have built up a couple of retro 26" wheeled MTBs as touring/gravel/expedition bikes with drop bars and fast rolling tyres. I enjoyed them but they never felt as fast or capable on the road as a proper road focused larger wheeled bike. Don't ask me why!

It strikes me that "gravel" bikes are more of a modern take on the classic touring bike (or in retro/90s speak - a hybrid) than they are either an MTB or a cyclocross bike.

At the end of the day the specs and the application are the same - it's a beefed up road bike with uprated brakes, space for chunky tyres, and rack/mudguard mounts. It's meant to be a bike that you can ride fast and comfortably over long distances on varied road surfaces including unpaved paths - not an off-road racing machine.

If I were going to build a "retro" gravel bike I'd look for a 90s hybrid and put drop bars on it. In fact, I've already got a nice 1992 Trek 7900 Multitrack that I might do just that with.

At the end of the day, there is marketing happening, but there is also genuine innovation and change, as well as design for a specific application. It may be designed for the same sort of job, but a modern carbon framed gravel bike with disk brakes and compact geometry is vastly changed from an old-fashioned steel framed touring bike with cantilever brakes.

The touring bike is an old concept. When it was updated as the "hybrid" there were some genuine innovations - but the main change was putting straight bars on. It strikes me that if there's any rebranding going on it's more like the now thoroughly unfashionable hybrid has dropped it's straight bars and got a new label.

Yes, there's fashion, and there's marketing B.S. but there is also gradual technological progress. For me, modern gravel bikes look appealing because I like bikes that can be used as practical fast transport - and that's what they do - and they represent the "state of the art". But I can't really afford one.

Did you even ride a gravel bike and compare it to a 70s touring bike?

 

[legrandefromage]

As stated many many times, cycling is a business. Its also a very bad business model as its products can be used for decades with little or no further input from the manufacturer, anything 'new' is leapt upon like a pack of dogs on an injured rabbit and shaken until all novelty is thoroughly lost.

There is nothing new in a 'gravel' bike, just a tweek of an old idea, just because we havent all rushed out to buy one doesnt mean that people are not qualified to comment. There are many frame builders on the site, some linked to famous brands and are more than capable of instantly assessing a frame design and how it will perform for a given task.

A quick glance around shows they come in many geometries, with the head tube angle creating the most differences with bigger tires upping the fork trail of any bike. There doesnt seem to be ANY specific geometry with subsets existing within the 'gravel' bike world depending on the task, many just end up as a rigid 29er with drops (which is what many suspected anyway)

So, Prodigal Son, wind it in a bit, look at the biscuits thread and have a cup of tea.

Or coffee.

Or neither.

 

[Rod_Saetan]

Re:

I'm not sure what you mean when you say people who haven't ridden a gravel bike shouldn't comment on them. Does that mean on here the only person who should post in a reader's bikes thread is the actual owner, because he's the only person who has ridden it and knows its ins and outs?

I didn't quite say that, but just replying 'don't bother mate, it's all marketing/made up/the same as a rigid MTB' to someone asking for advice on whether they should build a certain kind of bike, specifically from people who had already done it isn't terribly helpful. It's like someone going to the biscuit thread and asking 'which is the best chocolate biscuit?' and receiving the reply: 'I don't like chocolate so all chocolate biscuits are sh*t, best off sticking to custard creams, good traditional biscuit that, you can't just reinvent the biscuit every time you want to make a few quid, chocolate on biscuits, honestly, ugh, whatever next!' etc etc.