Grenfell Tower
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Silvergoat
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This may change...
tintin40":e4wn3hqr said:groovyblueshed":e4wn3hqr said:
This may change...
Silvergoat
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Totoro":3c9m7s7a said:
OK Totoro, Retrobike is a bike forum, I'll give you that. However the 'General & Off Topic Chat' is specifically a "forum for discussing anything non-bike related you fancy" – Retrobike clearly states this on the side of the tin. And that's what people are doing here, busy having discussions about anything they fancy, without a bike in sight. Imagine that. So, there we were, already frequenting another forum for discussing something completely non-bike. Then you opened the door to interrupt and shout at us about doing it. If you don't like what you're seeing here or don't have anything positive or constructive to contribute, then troll off on your bike to the bike section where you can moan about people having non-bike related discussions in the 'General & Off Topic Chat' forum.
Silvergoat
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The more that comes out about this whole sorry business, the more I think we're doing the victims and survivors of Grenfell a huge injustice by trying to ignore the elephant in the room of the role that council management and government played in laying the foundations for such a criminal event to occur.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/k ... infuriate/
The more that comes out about this whole sorry business, the more I think we're doing the victims and survivors of Grenfell a huge injustice by trying to ignore the elephant in the room of the role that council management and government played in laying the foundations for such a criminal event to occur.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/news/london/west/k ... infuriate/
The more I read on this subject (in technical terms, not pathetic rabble rousing garbage like the above) the more disturbing I think it is. It may well turn out that we currently do not have any properly safe material available which is fully suitable for external insulation of buildings.
Façade fires facilitated by many different kinds of insulation seem to be a Europe-wide problem... our houses are now stuffed full of various plastic foams in the name of environmental benefits, all of which are combustible and most of which emit horrible dense black noxious smoke. From my reading it seems that although all pretty much all this stuff meets fire regulations, none of it is actually safe - and that this has been known to some in academia and the building trade for years, but largely ignored.
You can rage all you like about councils penny pinching (and there is no excuse for a lack of proper fire alarm system, hose reels / extinguishers and maybe external sprinklers) but lynching a few convenient politicians is not going to get the really serious issues addressed.
Façade fires facilitated by many different kinds of insulation seem to be a Europe-wide problem... our houses are now stuffed full of various plastic foams in the name of environmental benefits, all of which are combustible and most of which emit horrible dense black noxious smoke. From my reading it seems that although all pretty much all this stuff meets fire regulations, none of it is actually safe - and that this has been known to some in academia and the building trade for years, but largely ignored.
You can rage all you like about councils penny pinching (and there is no excuse for a lack of proper fire alarm system, hose reels / extinguishers and maybe external sprinklers) but lynching a few convenient politicians is not going to get the really serious issues addressed.
Silvergoat
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It's not about lynchings. It's about holding to account those legally responsible for allowing a catalogue of bad decisions to be made and signed off. It's not just about choice of materials and technical construction specs. It's also about why fire safety recommendations were not implemented and the fact that residents who perished in the blaze were previously threatened by the RKCB council and its related management company to keep quiet about raising fire safety issues. It's unacceptable to ignore this and the other related issues too – it needs to be part of the investigations.
It's not about lynchings. It's about holding to account those legally responsible for allowing a catalogue of bad decisions to be made and signed off. It's not just about choice of materials and technical construction specs. It's also about why fire safety recommendations were not implemented and the fact that residents who perished in the blaze were previously threatened by the RKCB council and its related management company to keep quiet about raising fire safety issues. It's unacceptable to ignore this and the other related issues too – it needs to be part of the investigations.
No disagreement from me on that - I just think the issue is much bigger than this particular tower block and would hate to see so much hate focused on one particular contractor or one particular political party and the chance to properly consider the wider problem (which is not necessarily anything to do with penny pinching) missed.
Silvergoat
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Agree too. Need to avoid the focussing on/scapegoating of one particular party, if there's a chain of different parties culpable.
Agree too. Need to avoid the focussing on/scapegoating of one particular party, if there's a chain of different parties culpable.
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