Grenfell Tower

[KermitGKona88]

Re: Re:

Wow.

"Honestly just F*ck off and peddle this shit somewhere else !!!"

That's a bit savage.

I Hope I'm not being referred to as one of the usual suspects. My post was genuine and heartfelt and part informed by work colleagues who knew people caught up in the event in some way. I avoided political input myself. You can't cosily separate politics from real life. And it's a shame differing points of view can't be handled in a grown up way. Hmmm.

No you are not one of the usual suspects. Yet!

Yes I am savage, Bats shows no real respect for any of the lives lost with his political ravings, all he wants to do is make political points against the however narrowly, duly elected government.

Yes the system is broken, yes it is shit, and yes it doesn't work, but it is the same whatever colour of government we have, Labour had 10 years to try and fix things but instead chose to pursue an illegal war which cost billions, they could have instead built each of those residents a nice house but didn't.... I know Uncle Joe Bats will have some clever political bullshit for why this didn't happen, maybe he should just purge everyone who disagrees with him.... I must be top of the list so bring it on.....

 

[Harryburgundy]

Re:

Hasn't some forms of building regs and in particular where fire officers would have previously been involved - become self regulatory in recent years?

 

[Bats]

Re: Re:

Yes I am savage, Bats shows no real respect for any of the lives lost with his political ravings, all he wants to do is make political points against the however narrowly, duly elected government.

So you're saying that I "show no respect for any of the lives lost" by drawing attention to the years long warnings about this building, that it was allowed to happen, and demanding justice and change.

Funny, sounds like who I'm showing no respect for is the cheapskate profiteers who killed those poor people. It's manslaughter. Plain and simple corporate manslaughter.

Your call is for the dead and those grieving them to be silenced. No chance, mate.

 

[KermitGKona88]

Re: Re:

Yes I am savage, Bats shows no real respect for any of the lives lost with his political ravings, all he wants to do is make political points against the however narrowly, duly elected government.

So you're saying that I "show no respect for any of the lives lost" by drawing attention to the years long warnings about this building, that it was allowed to happen, and demanding justice and change.

Funny, sounds like who I'm showing no respect for is the cheapskate profiteers who killed those poor people. It's manslaughter. Plain and simple corporate manslaughter.

I see you choose to ignore the parts you can't answer typical communist....

 

[Bats]

Re: Re:

I see you choose to ignore the parts you can't answer typical communist....

You aimed remarks at me about the Blair governments which I don't and have never supported, and am on record here on this forum as criticising. There was also a bit about me being "uncle joe" which I quite liked.

So in other words, I ignored what wasn't relevant to my comments on the Grenfell Tower disaster.

Care to explain why holding those responsible for the disaster to account upsets you? When you say "don't politicise it" does that extend to the angry people who lived there, who said and keep saying this exact same stuff I'm saying?

 

[Silvergoat]

Re:

Hey, take it easy comrades!

I'm not going to say any more on this chaps but here's a few points for being able to make a more informed decision – here's a little bedtime reading for you all:

2009 - Lakanal House tower block catches fire killing 6 people. The local authority is prosecuted for lapses in fire safety. A review is promised by the Labour government after pressure from the Fire Protection Association (FPA).
2010 - Building Regulations Act is published, including provisions for fire safety. Conservatives win election, a review is promised by the new government after more pressure from the FPA and warnings that the BR act does not go far enough.
2013 - Boris Johnson overrules the ruling body of the London Fire Brigade and uses legal action to inflict £29m in cuts. Closing 10 fire stations, cutting firefighters by 552, losing 14 fire engines and cutting minimum staffing levels from 5 to 4. By the time he steps down as Mayor of London, a further £100m in cuts go through taking it to £130m in total and the loss of 7000 firefighters. Fire prevention measures carried out by the service drop by over 25%. When challenged by a committee on fire safety on how cutting the fire service would not increase deaths, Boris replies "get stuffed".
2013 - All Party Parliamentary Group on Fire Safety and Rescue produces a report strongly recommending installation of fire suppression systems and sprinklers in 4000 tower blocks throughout Britain. The Grenfell residents action group publishes a report warning that their landlord is putting their safety at risk by restricting the access ways to their car park. They are ignored by their landlord.
2013 - 2016 Conservative housing ministers sit on All Party report without action, promising they are "looking at it", including housing minister Gavin Barwell.
2015 – Philip Davies filibustered the Human Habitation Bill which would have increased landlords liability for the safety of their tenants.
2016 - Conservatives vote against a Labour motion to make sure all landlords and housing associations ensure residences are fit for human occupation, including provisions for fire safety. The motion is denied by 312 votes to 219. 72 of the MPs voting against are landlords. The Grenfell residents action group publish a report warning people will die in a fire before the landlord takes notice of their poor fire safety provisions. They are ignored by their landlord.
2017 - Ex housing minister Gavin Barwell becomes Prime Minister Theresa May's chief of staff. He never actions the All Party Parliamentary report recommendations. Fire spreads through Grenfell Tower in 4 minutes. It has no fire suppression system or sprinklers. The stairwell is not adequate for a full building evacuation. The emergency lighting is missing from half of the floors. The fire service struggle to reach the building due to previous car park modifications causing access issues as warned by the resident action group in 2013.

 

[Bats]

Be careful! Mentioning causes of the disaster is "political". The green frog prefers you just shake your head and close your eyes while the culprits do a runner.

 

[KDM]

Re: Re:

Hasn't some forms of building regs and in particular where fire officers would have previously been involved - become self regulatory in recent years?

I know where you are going with this but I tried to find it out as a general question. I found this pdf and it is lengthy. The part I found seems to show there is no legal obligation for fire and risk assessment to be done by the fire brigade section 38 page 48. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/estates/maintenanc ... _flats.pdf

It seems it varies. my own block is 7 storeys high, had cladding due to "greenhouse targets and insulation"and plastic windows on an external upgrade within the last 5 years and it is a block that was built in the 70's.

It's internal upgrade on the stairs, communal landings and lift area has no fire/smoke detectors nor sprinklers. but we do have smoke alarms within the flats, It is a council block. We currently have the fire brigade turn up from time to time to what seems to be , to check the fire main water pipe and it's fittings which are on every landing. My friend 4 miles away again in a tower block but another authority, has their fire assessment/checks done by a private company but it is still a council block.

 

[tintin40]

i don't think they know how it started? It could be arson!!!! The investigation will take time

 

[technodup]

i don't think they know how it started? It could be arson!!!! The investigation will take time

Who needs an investigation? We have all the experts and answers here...

May should surely save us all the time and money and just refer to this thread.