Great early MTB Brands that are not what they used to be...

[brocklanders023]

Re:

To be honest some of the brands would have been better off just packing up. Thinking of Klein here really as the move to Trek did nothing to promote or improve the brand.

I'm aware of most bikes now coming from the same few factories and that's probably the reason I stay with Orange for my modern needs. Don't know what I'd do if they sold out.

 

[fagin]

Er I'm fairly sure Orange hardtails are made in Taiwan. Hence the quality welding compared to a 5.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re:

They always have, made the same place many many many bikes are made A-Pro in the 90s may well still be made there.

Whatever or wherever A-Pro is.

 

[sinnerman]

Re:

I love orange , but I think the platform needs to be updated, it's getting long in the tooth despite the advances in shock technology, I really couldn't believe the difference in performance and weight when compared other market presence

 

[Osella]

Interesting the difference between a brand and a manufacturer..

Specialized for instance are no different from Mongoose, GT or virtually any other mainstream and many smaller 'brands'. It's the same with cars, computers, phones or most other products these days. All the components are made by the cheapest possible source while still maintaining a level of QC; then final assembly is either carried out by the manufacturer, or the components shipped to the brand's 'factory' for assembly.

What's interesting is that those 'brands' who made their name out of being 'manufacturers' and then expanded and outsourced the manufacturing seem to be castigated.
The 'brands' which didn't try to be all things to all people and quietly outsourced the manufacturing don't seem to have picked up the same bad reputation..* (Ritchey, Rocky Mountain, Focus)

And the newer 'brands' who are simply that and have their designs put together in the far east at a competitive price with just enough individuality/branding to differentiate their frames seem to be some of the most successful* (e.g On-One, Surly, Tomac, Lapierre, Nukeproof, Islabike).
Component manufacturers seem very similar* (Charge, Nukeproof, Deity, Raceface).. just the modern way..

*Not applicable within the United States of America.

 

[gradeAfailure]

Re:

It was always thus - your 90's Clockwork, Marin, Specialized, whatever, was welded in an OEM factory in the far east; just as they are today. Although Merida make most of Specialized's alloy frames, the alloys used will be proprietary to Specialized.

Giant, interestingly enough, not only manufacture all their frames in-house, but also have their own smelting plant for their alloys. Think of them as the Seiko of the bike world..

 

[Osella]

Some, yes - but some of those like Rocky Mountain, Specialized, Orange, Saracen, Cannondale, Klein made a big thing in their earlier days about being 'home-grown' and that was a large part of their marketing.

Now, we know that this wasn't always the case and became less so over time - but does this count as losing their way, or not..?

Personally I want the frame and components to be made the best way possible - wherever, from whatever.. I'd be disappointed if the manufacturers used poor working conditions and probably wouldn't buy/buy again from them. But a lot of the 'sweatshop' rhetoric about the OEM factories is just false.
I hear a lot of talk about these supposedly inferior factories turning out 'cheap' frames and components; but as a percentage of those sold there doesn't seem to be as many problems with Shimano hubs as there are Hope hubs, for example.. Perhaps it's more about expectations - and I think this is what the thread originated about.

To get it back on track, perhaps there's just not as much ability for variation.. and that's why these manufacturers/brands 'stagnated'?
Not to be all UKIP about it; but when there are ever more restrictive rules about what can be made, minimum strengths and product lifetimes, more threat of ligitation in the event of a failure - you're simply not going to see the sort of variation that was present in past decades. As the box of possibility gets smaller everything still has to fit into it and becomes more homogenised.

These days, nobody will take a punt on producing a wildly new (anything) component, because the cost of manufacture & marketing in the even of one failure or bad review (which will then become almost instantly available, worldwide) is not worth the risk, even to some of the major manufacturers, and a start-up? They might get away with something as there might be a more forgiving attitude, but will they get a bank loan/crowdfunding for the follow-up product that might be revolutionary? Less likely..

This is why retrobiking to me is so much fun! Taking the whacky (or simply better!) old stuff that might or might not have worked, and applying modern adaptations/modifications/fixes to it can create something truly exceptional.

 

[ultrazenith]

Merlin and Litespeed have no connection to their former selves, other than the brand name, but they are still low volume and made in the US so I guess many new buyers don't care about the history so much...

The build quality of both brands is said to have gone down the drain, and the lifetime guarantees offered by the original companies are no longer being honoured by the new conglomerated bike companies. Litespeed's current interpretation of 'lifetime guarantee' is to reject all warranty claims and just say the frame has reached 'the end of its lifetime'.

 

[halaburt]

For me it's at least as much about the people as it is the "brand". Many of the really great, visionary people are still involved in a very hands-on way...
- Working as (mostly) 1-man frame builders: Potts, Sadoff, DiNucci, Cunningham, Gordon, Eriksen, Weigle, etc. etc.
- Running the component/parts companies they built: Paul (Price), Paragon (Norstad), (Doug) White, etc. etc.

A variant of these are the folks who maintained or re-built a classic brand but shifted to offshore production while remaining personally involved... Ibis (Nicol), Ritchey, etc.

Although I don't happen to have one, I can be excited about a modern Ibis because Scot is still involved. Whereas modern Salsas and Yeits may be nice mass-produced products -- I feel no connection to them now that all ties to the people involved in their heritage is gone.

To the original premise though my nomination would have to be: Wilderness Trail Bikes.

It's easier listing which ones are still great, much shorter list.

My best-of-the-best in this view is Chris King. Still owned by the man. Still US-made. Still a great (frankly, greater) company. Still supports/embraces their full history and vintage products while simultaneously staying very current and relevant.

Honorable mention to Phil Wood... which although it has changed hands, has many of the same attributes.

 

[gradeAfailure]

Re:

I wonder where people place Specialized in this then - I mean, they brought out the first mass-produced mountain bike in the Stumpjumper, they still make bikes that are great to ride, and they're still majority-owned and run by Mike Sinyard.