Frame Builders and Frame Designers

[pete_mcc]

I really agree with the last three posts as they all point to the fact that it is essential to have an element of experience built in the real world that can drive you to discount things that on paper or CAD look to be brilliant.

The difficulty now is that more and more machines are suspended and the development of suspension is so rapid that the need for R&D, CAD and modelling is far more key and this does remove alot of the builders skill. But even in this environment it is the experienced, field tested designers who win out, guys with backgrounds in motocross or automotive industry win over guys with highlighted, blow dried hair and a degree from St Martins in the Field.

I think I'd also buy from a builder like Rody rather than Chas, Rody is of the mountain bike generation and 'gets it' far more than Chas ever will, but Chas' skills in choosing specific tubes to suit an individual rather than a generic Mr Average is second to none.

 

[Drewson]

- for a good bike, you need both a good designer and a good builder, and Chris de Kerf, Karl Strong etc are other examples of combining the two. Paul Brodie was an artist, then he started painting bikes, then he started brazing frames, then he started designing frames. Rocky Mountain, Kona and Brodie Bikes (with which I think he is barely involved now) are still guided by his influence. That's the kind of guy you want.

I'm with Anthony on this one....

Just as a side note....if anyone is actually interested in having a go at building a frame to their spec (under expert guidance) then check out the Dave Yates Frame building course!! Will cost approx £1K all in (ie. tuition & materials), but how can u really put a price on learning a little knowledge from such an expert....only 2 "students" per course.....and you get to keep the frame you build

I'm booked in for Aug/Sept 09 and i can't wait.....might have to do a little brazing practice first though (although u don't have to have prior welding experience to attend!).

I'll keep folks posted on the final product if interested......

 

[yo-eddy]

I think I'd also buy from a builder like Rody rather than Chas, Rody is of the mountain bike generation and 'gets it' far more than Chas ever will, but Chas' skills in choosing specific tubes to suit an individual rather than a generic Mr Average is second to none.

Funny you mention this, cause it was the exact question I've been asked a lot lately about my Groovy...... why Rody?
Building a specific MTB frame is more than picking a tubeset and decide on the geometry specs. When I asked Rody to build me a frameset with early YO (non suspension corrected) geometry he knew immediatly what the "ride caracteristics" of this frame had to be. I did contact some other builders (Vittorio, Norwid e.a..)before I ended up with Rody, they all could build what I was asking if I'd give them the geometry specs and picked a tubeset. Rody was the only one that inmediatly asked more info... talking about stiffness of the bike, non tapering seatstays, custom blend of tubes to reproduce the "feel" of a Yo-Eddy....etc. etc. I thought I knew what I wanted but still we did send some 30 E-mails before the build started. When I (Finally ) got the bike, I assembled it, jumped on it...... and it was spot on perfect!
This shows that if you're searching for someone to build your dreambike it's not only about who's the best welder/craftsman but also who knows best what your needs are.
I know that I might sound like a broken record and Rody doesn't need any more advertisement cause he has sh#t loads of work to do nowadays ... but for me he's the best in combining communication,knowhow, design and craftmanship at this moment.....and despite the flawless welds and shiny paintjobs most of the bikes he builds are for people that actually will use these bikes........ HARD :twisted:
cheers to ya all

 

[yo-eddy]

- for a good bike, you need both a good designer and a good builder, and Chris de Kerf, Karl Strong etc are other examples of combining the two. Paul Brodie was an artist, then he started painting bikes, then he started brazing frames, then he started designing frames. Rocky Mountain, Kona and Brodie Bikes (with which I think he is barely involved now) are still guided by his influence. That's the kind of guy you want.

I'm with Anthony on this one....

Just as a side note....if anyone is actually interested in having a go at building a frame to their spec (under expert guidance) then check out the Dave Yates Frame building course!! Will cost approx £1K all in (ie. tuition & materials), but how can u really put a price on learning a little knowledge from such an expert....only 2 "students" per course.....and you get to keep the frame you build

I'm booked in for Aug/Sept 09 and i can't wait.....might have to do a little brazing practice first though (although u don't have to have prior welding experience to attend!).

I'll keep folks posted on the final product if interested......

Very interested in the final products (and the little steps in between)
Must admit I tend to have double feelings about this type of course..... I mean why not let someone with years of experience build your frame and just gaze at their craftmanship instead of "doing it yourself" These guys are just so good I wouldn't even think about doing it myself in a days course........ feels a bit like doing everest with extra oxygen and a 1000 sherpa's.... knowing that Messner did it solo without oxygen support in the early eighties allready... just my opinion and still very interested in the proses and result. Sincerly hope you'll enjoy your days building with Dave.
cheers Roy

 

[Drewson]

- for a good bike, you need both a good designer and a good builder, and Chris de Kerf, Karl Strong etc are other examples of combining the two. Paul Brodie was an artist, then he started painting bikes, then he started brazing frames, then he started designing frames. Rocky Mountain, Kona and Brodie Bikes (with which I think he is barely involved now) are still guided by his influence. That's the kind of guy you want.

I'm with Anthony on this one....

Just as a side note....if anyone is actually interested in having a go at building a frame to their spec (under expert guidance) then check out the Dave Yates Frame building course!! Will cost approx £1K all in (ie. tuition & materials), but how can u really put a price on learning a little knowledge from such an expert....only 2 "students" per course.....and you get to keep the frame you build

I'm booked in for Aug/Sept 09 and i can't wait.....might have to do a little brazing practice first though (although u don't have to have prior welding experience to attend!).

I'll keep folks posted on the final product if interested......

Very interested in the final products (and the little steps in between)
Must admit I tend to have double feelings about this type of course..... I mean why not let someone with years of experience build your frame and just gaze at their craftmanship instead of "doing it yourself" These guys are just so good I wouldn't even think about doing it myself in a days course........ feels a bit like doing everest with extra oxygen and a 1000 sherpa's.... knowing that Messner did it solo without oxygen support in the early eighties allready... just my opinion and still very interested in the proses and result. Sincerly hope you'll enjoy your days building with Dave.
cheers Roy

Firstly, his courses are actually a week in duration and, secondly, i'm sure there can alot of pleasure to be gained in discovering a little of the art of framebuilding from an expert. It won't actually turn me into Dave Yates, Chris Chance, Joe Murray, or any of those guys, but i will have the pleasure of riding a bike that i personally had a large hand in constructing....that is surely a worthwhile experience to many a keen biker? or maybe it's just me...... :roll:

Ps. As it's likely to be one bike of many in my garage i won't feel too disappointed if it doesn't look up to the rigours of tabletops and 10 foot drop-offs... hopefully it'll be a good enough commuter at least...

 

[FairfaxPat]

I've got to say that Joe Breeze is a great designer and a highly skilled builder, I have known him for 40 years and have been there to actually watch him conceive, draw up the plans, then build a new bike from start to finish!

 

[Russell]

One of the greatest frustrations of dealing with trying to get Naieve design into manufacture comes from designers who have no practical experiance, designing in 90 degree bends at the bottom of blind holes. Blind holes with square corners, and 'captured parts1. All examples of parts that can not be made. I think to be a great designer, you NEED an appreciation of how stuff is made. But to be exceptional you need to think out the box.

I have designs land on my desk that are simply impossible to manufacture or have details that just won't work, 'designers dreams' we call them. You can tell the designers that have an understanding of manufacturing and the ones that don't from their drawings.