Fixing a Victorian

[Nabeaquam]

I think woz we're all bumbling novices when presented with the wizadry of Nabeaquams bike!
It's from another century but almost like from another planet! Well to me it is
I can see it being brazed by a wizard yep... doable.....it's cutting that join.....I just can't my head round the neatness and consistency of it by hand! But to tool up a machine to cut that in steel would be so expensive I just can't see the cost effectiveness for such low volume! If it was cut by a machine they're would definitely have to be other applications for that kind of tubing...

Nabeaquam.....is the joint stitch on the forks a straight line or does it follow the curvature of the fork?

It follows the fork curve.

I have a late 1920s Gloria. It has Italian high quality tubing made under a German patent. It was also bent and worn out, but not as bad as this current project. I have a set of reamers, threaders and facers for bicycles. I tried to fix it myself but the steel was so brittle that I made a mess. I sent it to a frame maker and he couldn’t fix it as it was brittle. He replaced two tubes and the drops. He removed dents, did a track alignment and spread the drops from 114 to 120 mm. He thought it might have been furnace brazed but because of the steel brittleness I’m now thinking it may have been brazed with a blowtorch. The net info indicates that a blowtorch had a wide flame. Interesting. Here is the Gloria tubing stamp. I can’t find much about this tubing.

 

[Woz]

Yeah, the sheet metal working is a puzzle. Something from ship building or rail transport?

I can't see the join cutting by hand, but entirely feasible. It's a bit like having difficulty seeing the work gone into old furniture making.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

It follows the fork curve.

I have a late 1920s Gloria. It has Italian high quality tubing made under a German patent. It was also bent and worn out, but not as bad as this current project. I have a set of reamers, threaders and facers for bicycles. I tried to fix it myself but the steel was so brittle that I made a mess. I sent it to a frame maker and he couldn’t fix it as it was brittle. He replaced two tubes and the drops. He removed dents, did a track alignment and spread the drops from 114 to 120 mm. He thought it might have been furnace brazed but because of the steel brittleness I’m now thinking it may have been brazed with a blowtorch. The net info indicates that a blowtorch had a wide flame. Interesting. Here is the Gloria tubing stamp. I can’t find much about this tubing.View attachment 636429

Curved! So thats just gone from a press type tool to some kind of rotary shear....it's frying my brain!
Expensive tooling not half!
And now I've got to look into titanus tubing....going to be a long night between this and woz's de Dion bouton thread...oh dear...best get some liquid refreshment in!

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Yeah, the sheet metal working is a puzzle. Something from ship building or rail transport?

I can't see the join cutting by hand, but entirely feasible. It's a bit like having difficulty seeing the work gone into old furniture making.

Nabeaquam just stated the joint in the fork blades follows the curve....pphhhhwoooar! So rolled and cut by hand....and don't forget you have to then replicate the exact opposite handing but with the same curve....mind boggling skill by hand.
I'm making a guesstimated call but I'd reckon the size and depth of the internal dimpling is going to reduce the weight by around 25%... The industries I'm thinking that usually get state of the art technologies first is usually armaments!
Or just maybe the race to get airborne was injecting enough cash and enthusiasm for this tubing....I dunno
I need answers!

 

[Woz]

Actually, on some of the photographs of the Madison Square track, all the advertising is for Motorbikes.

Like I said early, it must have been a whacky time for technology. But let's not forget that a lot was also born out of fine wood working, using templates, formers, guides, jigs, etc.

Could the form of the forks and cuts simply be modelled with good old wood, paper and a pencil prior?

A bit like a tailor or shoe maker would with cloth without thinking twice at all?

PS: I've started drinking, if that wasn't obvious already

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Actually, on some of the photographs of the Madison Square track, all the advertising is for Motorbikes.

Like I said early, it must have been a whacky time for technology. But let's not forget that a lot was also born out of fine wood working, using templates, formers, guides, jigs, etc.

Could the form of the forks and cuts simply be modelled with good old wood, paper and a pencil prior?

A bit like a tailor or shoe maker would with cloth without thinking twice at all?

PS: I've started drinking, if that wasn't obvious already

Hmmm .....yes maybe I'm being blinded by big old machines and awesome tooling.....get crafty get cunning mike.....drink more....be more cunning!

I'll report back later...an idea is hatching

 

[Woz]

....get your craft making skills on. Go for that Blue Peter badge!

 

[Mickeyspinn]

....get your craft making skills on. Go for that Blue Peter badge!

It's still rumbling around in the squidgy stuff.....but I think I know
It has to be repeat accuracy no if no buts...imagine hand punching 87 of those teeth and then messing the last one..! when I've finished your thread I might wobble Infront if the drawing board and get really serious

 

[Woz]

Just thinking aloud. At this time, you had this going on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty
I'm wondering if softer metals and plaster casts were used initially to make the template for the steel sheet?

I mean, the know-how was out there for intricate metal working, either on a small scale or gigantic scale.

 

[Nabeaquam]

Just thinking aloud. At this time, you had this going on:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statue_of_Liberty
I'm wondering if softer metals and plaster casts were used initially to make the template for the steel sheet?

I mean, the know-how was out there for intricate metal working, either on a small scale or gigantic scale.

I wonder if the know how is long gone, not documented anywhere? Any tools remaining would be a mystery. A friend looked at it who went and graduated from two metal working schools was equally baffled. He knows how to form and fabricate body panels, weld every way and braze. He is versed in more modern technology, 1920. He thought the easiest way might be to dip it in molten brass, but brass is only in the joint. He thought shaking wiping would remove all but what went into the tight joint by capillary action. I don’t think this is right, wouldn’t the steel expand and separate, move all over the place, oh geez.