Ah, I tend to look for details that the True Temper AVR frames had, usually, but I suppose not always, the rear canti stand is a give away, plus the fact that if one looked at the tubes by the bottom bracket, the tubes are ovalised at this termination. My current frame which says it is Tange MTB tubing, there isn't this ovalising of tubes. From what I understand both the MTB and the AVR was pretty bog standard stuff, but in the Saracen configuration, detail and finishing, they are beautiful and tough frames.
There is also I have noticed, some frames with a seat clamp incorporated into the frame and fixed with a twist bolt like the old style, not the fit on clamp and lever QR. But I know from memory why Saracen put the tube clamping slot at the fromt of the seat tube termination, I remember it said at the time, something I was reading, the reason being putting it at the front stopped water and crud from the back wheel entering the seat tube and corroding the seat pin in place. Seems Saracen was definately thinking about a British bike for British conditions at the time.
But like I said earlier in this thread, Saracen to me, are more akin to the old British Leyland parts bin raids, as very often even with the same year and designation, the finished articles can be different, where one would expect them to be the same.
But perhaps given the interest in the old Saracens, it might be worth surveying owners of these machines to see what their frame is, ovalised or standard tubing, also the detailing on the frame and frame numbers, see if we can make some sense of them, also years of manufacture in relation to those oddities in detail.
