Decals (safe during repaint/coating)

[TheBear1978]

Evening all,

I am currently having some decal-related issues. So I bought some decal sets of eBay to restore some Cannondale frames I have, one of which is currently way at Bob Jackson. However, they emailed me this morning to say that some of them has either split or shifted during application ? These were not cheap quid decals either...unclear if this has happened when the frame has tried to be lacquered over the top or if this has happened during the application process.

So I may have to look for another supplier of decals, but they must be suitable for application to painted or powdercoated frames prior to then being lacquered over the top (either paint or powder lacquer, undecided as yet as may have to get frame restripped either at BJ or taken elsewhere).

Any advice or alternative sources for decals (UK only please as already had separate issues with a supplier in Turkey) would be appreciated thanks

 

[Retro Spud]

one person .... Gil_m

he's a member on here or get him via his website http://www.thecycleshed.co.uk/frontdoor.html

 

[Supratada]

I wouldn’t advise putting decals under lacquer in the first place.

 

[Peachy!]

I’ve had lots of experience with Bobby J’s... and in my opinion they know what they are doing. I’ve found Donald very fair and trustworthy... if he says the transfers are at fault he’s probably right.

Also done lots of work with Gil, he’s a go to man for bespoke or one off vinyls but I’m not sure transfers are his cup of tea.

I’ve been told these guys do great bespoke transfers suitable for being over sprayed with lacquer.
Although I’ve not tried them yet

http://www.guitardecals.co.uk/

N.B. Technical note.... no transfers/decals/vinyls etc, will survive the heat required to clear powder coat, you can of course apply them onto powder coat then overspray with a cold wet traditional lacquer.

 

[TheBear1978]

I wouldn’t advise putting decals under lacquer in the first place.

Why not, this is the way they come from factory ? :?

 

[TheBear1978]

I’ve had lots of experience with Bobby J’s... and in my opinion they know what they are doing. I’ve found Donald very fair and trustworthy... if he says the transfers are at fault he’s probably right.

Also done lots of work with Gil, he’s a go to man for bespoke or one off vinyls but I’m not sure transfers are his cup of tea.

I’ve been told these guys do great bespoke transfers suitable for being over sprayed with lacquer.
Although I’ve not tried them yet

http://www.guitardecals.co.uk/

N.B. Technical note.... no transfers/decals/vinyls etc, will survive the heat required to clear powder coat, you can of course apply them onto powder coat then overspray with a cold wet traditional lacquer.

The decals I bought were quoted as being safe for lacquer-fix....and ironically, the company that I bought them off on eBay messaged me to say they do a lot of business with Bob Jackson selling them decal-sets and have never had an issue before ? They asked that Bob Jackson get in touch with them directly to discuss what the issue might be.

I can't see there being any difference between the heat required for fixing a proper powder-lacquer such as Prismatic Clear Vision and that required for a stove-enameled lacquer :?

 

[Peachy!]

The decals I bought were quoted as being safe for lacquer-fix....and ironically, the company that I bought them off on eBay messaged me to say they do a lot of business with Bob Jackson selling them decal-sets and have never had an issue before ? They asked that Bob Jackson get in touch with them directly to discuss what the issue might be.

I can't see there being any difference between the heat required for fixing a proper powder-lacquer such as Prismatic Clear Vision and that required for a stove-enameled lacquer :?

Good to hear the decal guys want to get to the bottom of the problem, so many online retailers just can’t be bothered with customers service.

As for powder coating over transfers, I’ve never tried it. I know stove enamelling temperature is around 120c which most transfers and vinyls can take, but PC bakes at 200c and I know vinyls can’t take that, so I assumed transfers/decals couldn’t either.
Might give it a go.

Ps. Which company did you get the transfers from?

 

[TheBear1978]

The decals I bought were quoted as being safe for lacquer-fix....and ironically, the company that I bought them off on eBay messaged me to say they do a lot of business with Bob Jackson selling them decal-sets and have never had an issue before ? They asked that Bob Jackson get in touch with them directly to discuss what the issue might be.

I can't see there being any difference between the heat required for fixing a proper powder-lacquer such as Prismatic Clear Vision and that required for a stove-enameled lacquer :?

Good to hear the decal guys want to get to the bottom of the problem, so many online retailers just can’t be bothered with customers service.

As for powder coating over transfers, I’ve never tried it. I know stove enamelling temperature is around 120c which most transfers and vinyls can take, but PC bakes at 200c and I know vinyls can’t take that, so I assumed transfers/decals couldn’t either.
Might give it a go.

Ps. Which company did you get the transfers from?

Worldcycledecalsltd was the company,.also known as bicycledecalsltd.

On reflection and having looked at this in more detail,.it seems that the high temps of powdercoat lacquers are not suitable for vinyl decals, however, CTC (Maldon) powdercoating offers a 2-pack lacquer over decals which have been applied over powdercoat (£75 +VAT), but I suspect this is standard wet 2-pack Automotive style lacquer clear-coat.

 

[unkleGsif]

Re:

The decals that Rob (guitardecals) makes are coated with a lacquer once they are printed... I think this is to partly fix them and also to prevent issues when layering over the top (been a while sincebi worked with him but it's something like that)
It might have been a reaction between the lacquer applied when manufactured and the one used by the OP that caused the issue?

 

[TheBear1978]

Re: Re:

The decals that Rob (guitardecals) makes are coated with a lacquer once they are printed... I think this is to partly fix them and also to prevent issues when layering over the top (been a while sincebi worked with him but it's something like that)
It might have been a reaction between the lacquer applied when manufactured and the one used by the OP that caused the issue?

The OP being Bob Jackson ?

The decal supplier has already said that Bob Jackson uses a higher over temperature than recommended but they have avoided issues in the past by leaving frame for 24 hrs after decals are applied before acquiring and baking.

All I know I am stuck in the middle, out of pocket for ruined decals and likely now going to have to pay Bob Jackson in full for an unfinished job then repay again for more decals, re-stripping of frame/forks, repainting/recoating elsewhere etc. which am understandably not happy about.