Convert 1968 Raleigh Pro to indexed brifter shifting

[mtwils]

@john ferguson I believe that era Campy triple crank had a 36t small chainring. If a 36-28 is not a low enough gear, we have ways of improving that, the easiest first step being a smaller 74bcd chainring with new mounting holes drilled (assuming you cannot just purchase what you want from eBay or some custom vendor). A link to a forum where someone else describes the process in more detail:
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/1251559-campagnolo-nuovo-record-triple-crankset-help.html
The Campy 8-9-10 left brifters had about 12 or 14 2mm steps, so triples could be made to work but the shifts are multiple clicks. These might well work with your existing front derailleur. The 11 speed left brifter has less pull and fewer 2mm clicks, but I have made it work for a triple. The 12 speed left brifter is tuned to be a double with the standard 12 speed front derailleur.

Triple front shifting with triple brifters often requires patience and trial and error. The chainring spacers may need adjusting if you plan to use an official triple brifter setup. There at least used to be a Campagnolo 11 speed triple brifter, I think Athena, and I have 2 left 10 speed triple brifters as well which I think are Veloce Escape, each of which will have shift points tuned for triple rather than the many 2mm cable pulls. Shimano triple brifters also have carefully designed shift points for triples. Shimano triple derailleurs after about 20 years ago expected chainring shift ramps, but careful grinding of the derailleur to have the derailleur lift the chain made it work on a flat chainring.

Campagnolo Escape 10 speed brifters have ratchets, and are different than all other Campagnolo 8-9-10 brifters which have springs on a gear for index. I have not studied the different 11 speed Campagnolo styles.

I have successfully got a Shimano derailleur and brifter to shift a custom Stronglight 93 24-34-47 triple on my PX10 (and yes I know you cannot ordinarily put those chainrings on a Stronglight 93, but I can).

 

[pigman]

Looking at the canti brakes, you have set them up with very long straddle cables. What this does is provide better braking power but at the expense of long cable travel. If you shortened them, you may get the cable travel on your campag levers to work effectively. However, there's the reduction in power to contend with. Looking at them, they seem far longer than most setups

 

[mtwils]

I should be more careful about what I write. I do not actually know about the 8 and 9 speed Campagnolo left brifters. I know the 10 speed left normal (non-escape) brifters have the 12-14 2mm index positions.

 

[non-fixie]

Looking at the canti brakes, you have set them up with very long straddle cables.

I have. That particular bike is my test mule, and I use it to try out all sorts of new stuff and ideas. Some more successful than others. Straddle cable length is one of them. And yes, they are a bit long, and I'll probably shorten them on a next iteration.

Just for laughs, here's another version of that bike from a couple of years back. The looks are definitely unfortunate, but the combination was actually quite comfortable. Main test objects were the cheap (€100) wheelset with dynamo hub, Andel compact crankset, Claris brifters and Brooks B17 Titanium:

 

[john ferguson]

non-fixie, not to worry, or better "no worries".
I was able install the left Campi brifter after winning the argument with the hood. The new down-tube stops showed up today. Next week the cable-housing cutter should show-up and I can then put everything together and see where I am. The shifting cogs within the brifters seem a little stiff. I'm hoping I can encourage them with a little oil.

My initial plan is to see if the new shifter will position the old Nuovo Record rear derailler with its original cage which came with the bik in 1968 - 5 speed Regina freewheel then.

I'd put a 6 speed Suntour on the bike in 1985 ( not the ulta version) with a 28 tooth stump-puller. Front was triple ring Campi. Amazingly and despit what everyone told me, I was able to shif through all the gears although If I was going to use the 28, I needed to already be on the small front chainring.

Hoping that no-one will beat me up for the appearance of the bike, I'll post photos when it's up and running. It would be nice to get the fram repainted, but I don't want to do it if it isn't an excellent job and it looks like I cannot get an excellent job without shipping it out of state.

 

[Guinessisgoodforyou]

Hoping that no-one will beat me up for the appearance of the bike, I'll post photos when it's up and running. It would be nice to get the fram repainted, but I don't want to do it if it isn't an excellent job and it looks like I cannot get an excellent job without shipping it out of state.

It is your bike. If it keeps or helps your riding don't worry what people think. I hope no one here would be that rude. Please post pictures.

 

[non-fixie]

non-fixie, not to worry, or better "no worries".
I was able install the left Campi brifter after winning the argument with the hood. The new down-tube stops showed up today. Next week the cable-housing cutter should show-up and I can then put everything together and see where I am. The shifting cogs within the brifters seem a little stiff. I'm hoping I can encourage them with a little oil.

My initial plan is to see if the new shifter will position the old Nuovo Record rear derailler with its original cage which came with the bik in 1968 - 5 speed Regina freewheel then.

I'd put a 6 speed Suntour on the bike in 1985 ( not the ulta version) with a 28 tooth stump-puller. Front was triple ring Campi. Amazingly and despit what everyone told me, I was able to shif through all the gears although If I was going to use the 28, I needed to already be on the small front chainring.

Hoping that no-one will beat me up for the appearance of the bike, I'll post photos when it's up and running. It would be nice to get the fram repainted, but I don't want to do it if it isn't an excellent job and it looks like I cannot get an excellent job without shipping it out of state.

Thanks.

Flushing them with WD40, followed by light oil, often works well to get those shifters back into shape.

While it would be cool to keep the NR derailleur, its movement probably isn't linear enough to be able to get it to work with indexed shifters in any kind of useful fashion.

Be prepared to have to replace it with something that has been designed for indexed shifting. Early Shimano SIS derailleurs are plentiful and affordable. And with the exception of some Dura Ace variants, they all work to the same specifications.

If, like me, you like low gears for when hills cross your path, get one with a long cage. It will enable you to go beyond 28T if needed, and take up enough chain to go small on the inner chain ring up front as well.

I recently bought a batch of four Deore LX RD's for that very reason. They don't look too bad on a vintage bike and they work well in a "Shimergo" setup.

 

[john ferguson]

I may be laboring under a misapprehension. There are some remarks in Sheldon Browns wonderful web-site to the effect that when Campagnolo first introduced indexed shifters, they were designed to work with existing derailleurs but required 5mm sprocket spacing. My guess is that the shifters in question were the downtube mounted type and that there is no good reason to suppose that this shifting geometry was retained into the first brifters. But I can hope.

john

 

[non-fixie]

I may be laboring under a misapprehension. There are some remarks in Sheldon Browns wonderful web-site to the effect that when Campagnolo first introduced indexed shifters, they were designed to work with existing derailleurs but required 5mm sprocket spacing. My guess is that the shifters in question were the downtube mounted type and that there is no good reason to suppose that this shifting geometry was retained into the first brifters. But I can hope.

john

Only one way to find out: try it. Other than a couple of hours of your life there's nothing to lose.

 

[john ferguson]

I'd thought tlo make it a full-campi bike, which at this point assuming that either the present rear derailleur works or is replaced with a more modern campi, would mean replacing the durta-ace brakes with campi records (used).
.
In 1968 bike had Weinman Centre-Pulls and mavic sew-up rims. I rode it like that until 1980 when I gort the aero rims, and dura-ace stem and brakes. So full campi is not a restoration choice, on the othewr hand.

Only problem with this scheme is my dura-ace brakes seem a lot nicer than any of the campi brakes I can find on the net.

I now have every thing I need to finish the brifter installation and will soon know if the old nuovo record derailleur will work with the new shifters.