Convert 1968 Raleigh Pro to indexed brifter shifting

[john ferguson]

HI Chambo34,
What are you using for derailleur?

 

[john ferguson]

I lucked out - so far. I bought 8 speed Campi shifters on EbAy for $66. No road rash on the aluminum but the hoods show they were use a bit. I need to replace the down-tube shifters with stops. Campi offers two types, one concave and the other not. I think the concave type for for barcon shifters.

The freewheel won't com off the hub. We figured out that it's been on there for 38 years. I bought a 29mm impact wrench socket and a lot of penetrating oil, and on Monday it's off to the tire guy to wee if his impact wrench is up to the job. If it won't I can see myself building a new wheel. I hoipe the aero rims I have are still available.

Why is nothing ever simple?

 

[chambo34]

HI Chambo34,
What are you using for derailleur?

Shimano 200 GS on that particular bike, works perfectly!

 

[non-fixie]

Welcome, John!

If you've got Campagnolo 8-speed brifters, getting another freewheel with 5.5mm spacing and a Shimano SIS RD is the cheapest and easiest way forward.

With hubub cable routing it will work really nicely. Have a look here.

I have built a bike for mrs non-fixie with that setup, and it works really well:

Shimergo-ing bikes is something I have been doing a lot lately, it seems. This is what I made out of a French frame I'd bought on ebay. 9-speed Campy Ergo, Shimano Deore RD and a Sachs-Maillard 5-speed FW:

 

[john ferguson]

I bpought 1 29mm impact socket which fits the suntour hub adapter. I took it to the local tiure-shop where an impact wrench was applied and it camre right off. I recommend you use a throw-away skewer because when the freewheel unwinds it will strip the threads either on the skewer or on the nut.

I'm puzzled that an 8 speed Campi shifter which is designed for 5mm srocket spacing will work on a 5.5mm cog, but maybe the Shimano derailleur is providing the translation.

those are very nice looking bikes, by the way.

john

 

[non-fixie]

I'm puzzled that an 8 speed Campi shifter which is designed for 5mm srocket spacing will work on a 5.5mm cog, but maybe the Shimano derailleur is providing the translation.

those are very nice looking bikes, by the way.

john

Thank you.

Indexed shifters provide a certain amount of cable pull, which differs by brand and model. RD's also react differently to a given amount of cable pull. So it's all about figuring out which combination results in the actual movement you need for the freewheel you want to use.

Luckily someone else has already done all the measuring and figuring, and made the tables I linked to earlier. I am very grateful for those.

So, Campag 8-speed shifters will shift 5.0mm with a matching Campag RD. But a Shimano SIS RD will take much bigger steps when attached to those shifters. Which can subsequently be reduced to 5.5mm by the trick with the alternate "hubbub" cable routing.

Worth trying out, because those Ergo shifters are really nice, and especially the earlier versions don't look too bad on a vintage bike, IMHO.

Here's another example from a year ago: early 9-speed Ergo's with a 5.5mm FW and a Shimano Deore RD. A plug-and-play combination:



The same bike four weeks ago, with 11-speed Ergo's and a Shimano 9-speed cassette. Shortened to 8 cogs to make it all fit:

 

[mtwils]

non-fixie​

What are those fenders in the last two pictures and on the Robust?

How did you get the Weinmann centerpulls to work with the Campy brifters on the Robust? I had trouble with not enough cable pull with a similar setup on my old Paramount. I eventually went with Tektro long-reach sidepulls because it was my 3 season daily commuter and stopping was important.

What are you using for a freehub body when you are shortening a 9 speed cassette to 8 speeds? A 7 speed freehub body?

There used to be a Grand Cru 120mm dropout spacing shimano sprocket compatible hub, but I have not seen them on ebay recently and I neglected to buy any. But I have respaced most of my steel frames to 130mm.

I have done several mix and match setups, but if I am buying parts I now try to use derailleurs and shifters that were intended to work together. There are often other considerations like style or chain wrap. Or using a left (front) Campy brifter to shift the rear derailleur (sort of works). My current style thought is trying to use a Simplex LJ or Huret Jubilee long cage with one of the aftermarket electronic shifters like Archer Components or NSXWireless to see if I can maintain a true retro look and still have modern handlebar index shifting with many sprockets.

Someone mentioned thinner sprocket spacers. There are cases where tuning the individual spacer widths makes a big difference in shift quality. This also applies when using non-standard cassette sprocket adjacencies.

 

[non-fixie]

non-fixie​

What are those fenders in the last two pictures and on the Robust?

How did you get the Weinmann centerpulls to work with the Campy brifters on the Robust? I had trouble with not enough cable pull with a similar setup on my old Paramount. I eventually went with Tektro long-reach sidepulls because it was my 3 season daily commuter and stopping was important.

What are you using for a freehub body when you are shortening a 9 speed cassette to 8 speeds? A 7 speed freehub body?

There used to be a Grand Cru 120mm dropout spacing shimano sprocket compatible hub, but I have not seen them on ebay recently and I neglected to buy any. But I have respaced most of my steel frames to 130mm.

I have done several mix and match setups, but if I am buying parts I now try to use derailleurs and shifters that were intended to work together. There are often other considerations like style or chain wrap. Or using a left (front) Campy brifter to shift the rear derailleur (sort of works). My current style thought is trying to use a Simplex LJ or Huret Jubilee long cage with one of the aftermarket electronic shifters like Archer Components or NSXWireless to see if I can maintain a true retro look and still have modern handlebar index shifting with many sprockets.

Someone mentioned thinner sprocket spacers. There are cases where tuning the individual spacer widths makes a big difference in shift quality. This also applies when using non-standard cassette sprocket adjacencies.

The fenders are 45mm Honjos. H31 fluted, I believe they are called.

I'm a little surprised you weren't able to get at least a reasonable performance from the Weinmann brakes. While the straddle cable cannot be adjusted like with MAFAC calipers, they should work OK. The brake cable pull of Campagnolo Ergo levers is pretty much standard. I did replace the pads on this particular set, IIRC, with Koolstop inserts.

Not wanting to waste an opportunity to post another bike pic , here's my Olympia Sport with Weinmann centerpulls and Ergo levers:

And yes, I used a 7-speed freehub for the shortened 9-speed cassette. Very much the result of me being a trial-and-error mechanic, but I later learned that the late Sheldon Brown has this tip on his website, so it's an official match.

Looking forward to seeing you shift 12 speeds electronically with a Jubilee. That'd be cool!

 

[mtwils]

Those look like Blumels fenders.

Some (all?) 7 speed freehub bodies accept threaded uniglide small sprockets. If you can find one, you can then reduce the right side clearance to the frame and have a better wheel dish, using loctite for the right cone. I sent my brother parts for that conversion for his first generation Klein. On my steel 120mm frames I set the wheel to 122mm, but the Klein is too stiff for that to work.

11 speed Di2 brifters pull more brake cable than the Campagnolo EPS brifters. I believe the same is true for Shimano 9 speed cable shift vs Campagnolo 10 speed cable shift, but those measurements were 10+ years ago. From the pictures you clearly are not having the issues I was.

Old derailleurs like the Jubilee have limited horizontal travel, often due to short parallelogram arms. This will require derailleur modification which is a lot of work for style, and even so will almost certainly not get 12 speeds. For 12 speeds the derailleur also has to have very little protrusion beyond the upper jockey pulley which is another challenge, and even 10 and 11 speed cassettes have the inner sprocket overlap the freehub body edge a bit. And once the Suntour slant parallelogram patent expired, almost all derailleurs started using a variation of that which is quite superior.

Do you like the Challenge tires?

 

[non-fixie]

Those look like Blumels fenders.

(...)

Do you like the Challenge tires?

Bluemels Club Specials. Nice and light. I use them a lot. Fragile too, so I have plenty of spare parts for the remaing sets.

Other than the obtrusive advertisements on the sidewalls, the Challenge tires are great tires. They provide an excellent ride. They do wear rather quickly, though.

Sorry, @john ferguson , for the thread hijack. Back to the main program: converting your '68 Raleigh Pro!