Claud Butler-Holdsworth frame numbers 1959-1976

[Peachy!]

Hello, regular visitors to this road bike side of the forum will most likely be familiar with the Holdsworth frame number threads originated by dwscrimshaw;Holdsworth Frame Numbers and Holdsworth Frame Numbers Update

These have been used by dw to create an excellent Holdsworth/Holdsworth Claud database which you can access via the http://www.nkilgariff.com website ‘Holdsworth Frame Number Database’

And some of you may have noticed my thread advising on Claud Butler Frame number identification here;Claud Butler frame number identification

Historically there has been a bit of a black hole for Claud Butlers betwee1959 & mid 1976. This period is when Holdsworth numbered the New Clauds separately from their own stock, re-adjusting the numbers mid 1967 to prevent a clash with their own numbers then finally mid-summer 1976 giving up on the idea of keeping them separate and amalgamating both Claud & Holdsworths under the ‘start with a zero’ system
I say Historically, because CBguy over in Canada & myself here in the UK have been collecting **Good Data** numbers to hang dates from for some time now and have finally with the help of dwscrimshaws prediction system put together our initial findings. You can see these now incorporated in the Holdsworth Frame Number Database (link above)
What we need from you is more data please, Holdsworth Clauds, specifically from 1959-1976. Don’t worry if you are not sure, that’s all part of the fun.
Please post the frame number and a photo and any information you have however spurious it might be.
Here is what we have so far.

**update 28/03/19**
**update 22/07/19**
**update 02/10/19**

 

[CBguy]

Great work Chris for spear heading this and always good to get more frames/data!

I will say that the prediction table that's been developed is akin to a marriage or disaster plan - it's a continual work in progress!!! As new good data surfaces, the table as presently pictured may become out of date!

Thus one should refer to dwscrimshaw's data base on google:
https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/fold ... TNKZkN4TmM
Or AllenNS Flickr album with pics:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/76762476@N05
Edit: Unfortunately a couple of years ago I lost my collection of '59-'76 Holdsworthy CB Flickr Pics form which the serial prediction was developed! My apologies to those who contributed their frames with serials and associated info.

This is a prediction estimate only, does not claim complete accuracy, and should only be used as a guide to further assessment including available documentation, history and catalogue description. Must be considered that often next year's models were built in fall of year and any particular frame may have lingered a year or more in a retail shop. Hence use of term "circa".

Doug

 

[Peachy!]

You are quite correct there Doug.

My intention is to update the jpg snip of the list on the first post as we go on.

 

[allenh]

Ok as I've just bought a black hole Claud I'll kick this off

Here's my Velo Capital, frame number 16887 which as far as I can tell dates it to 1963. The Velo Capital was only in the catalogues in 1963 and 1964 and the only other one I've seen had the later homogenised fork crown which I've assumed made it a 1964 model.

 

[Peachy!]

Cheers Allen, nice find, we’ll get that added to the list.

 

[Peachy!]

New number from Spog47 pushes the first series back uo to 31500. numbers on front page will be adjusted and edited soon.

Hopefully Spog will visit this thread and add some more photos for ID.

 

[spog47]

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=362563

This is a link to a tread I set up asking for information about my Claud some time ago.

 

[CBguy]

I'd say 31403 does not fit for a predicted c.1967 frame and appears much earlier. Likely pre Holdsworth ownership and 1950ish as discussed in prior link. Perhaps missing something here. Are there other numbers or was number ever recorded from fork stem? Better pics of seat cluster and fork crown might help? If there is a BB oiler I wonder re location? Certainly is a beauty!

Thus 31403 appears not a number we can hang our hats on and maybe jumped the gun here. However recent change in prediction around 1967 probably still reasonable as we do have number 30959 (Electron?) albeit discussed only briefly and without available pics:
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=326402

Numbers in period c.1967 remain a bit of a moving target.

 

[Peachy!]

Another for the list;
A top of the range Cordon Bleu, number 24918.
Dates it as 1965.

This was found e-bay, incorrectly restored and advertised as a 50’s model, :facepalm: so it’s got the wrong Reynolds label (should be 531 double butted) wrong seat tube crown/name decal (shouldn’t have the older CB address/white block version) and it should have a “Cordon Bleu” Olympic ring top tube name decal.
Personally, I don’t understand why anyone would go to the effort of such a nice restoration without some research first... it’s not that hard is it? :?

 

[LMACE]

Hi, this thread and previous Glaud Butler frame identification thread is brilliant, I am hoping someone could help identify my frame.

Frame and fork numbers are 3978 which would put it in the 1960 bracket.

i was hoping that someone could help identify model. The person i brought from thought it was a challenge model, now i have had a chance to give it a proper look over i'm not so sure as the cable guides on the top tube are on the top not on the side as shown in images found online for a challenge frame.

Ebay link of frame below:

Any help in identifying frame would be very much appreciated.
What frame do we think it is?
Cheers Luke

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Clau ... %7Ciid%3A1