Any eBike love here?

[Sketchyxup]

My wife bought one a few years back to start riding a bit more again after not doing much for a few years (post kids) and she loves it, uses it for family rides, out on road rides and some mtb action too. I've taken it out for a play a few times myself and they're brilliant, I found myself going in search of more an more tech climbs just to see what was possible. Brilliant fun.

 

[rwm1962]

Mrs loves her Giant DirtE. She used to beast a Proflex reptile back in the day but now has health issues. My 82 year old dad has just got himself a Trek Verve+2 now he doesn't drive & making regular trips to the local shops & chippy. Myself - could do with one with my knackered ankle but doing well enough for now. I'm hoping that will be fixed soon. If recovery doesn't pan out as planned I might consider an ebike. A lot of the folk I know are getting them to get more downhill runs packed into a day - nowt to do with health or fitness.

 

[Supratada]

I have one in my signature. It has revitalised mountain biking for me and I’ve gone from barely riding at all since 2003 to going out almost every week since November.
In those 17 years I lost all my fitness, gained a lot of weight and “real” biking became unpleasant.
I refurbed my P7 in about 2014 and took it to Sutton Bank twice but a 5 mile ride killed me and I stopped going. One ride on the Levo and I was hooked again. It took all the pain away and made me enjoy biking again. Oddly I’ve actually put on about 8lbs instead of losing. I think that’s a combination of muscle building but also post-ride eating being in excess of kcal burned.

It’s heresy on here but modern bikes with their geometry and handling, whether electricallly assisted or not, well, they’re just better. Nostalgia is lovely, but no one wants a 1930’s dentist on their teeth.

 

[Madmax1993]

Re:

I work in a bike shop, and we sell ebikes at the cheaper end of the scale, which leads to two big problems that make me hate them.
1. Unrealistic expectations
A lot of people expect more from the assistance. They equate speed with power, which is ridiculous. They also get beyond the 15.5mph legal threshold and complain that the bike feels heavy and slow, which of course it will, as the battery and motor is heavy, and if it's a wheel mounted motor will have friction when not powered. Some people even think they are getting something equivalent to a moped or motorbike for a fraction of the price and with no registration, licence or insurance. I am quick to disabuse them of this notion. Different types of ebike have their place, as you all have described above, but a lot of people who come to me wanting ebikes would actually be better off with a lightweight £500ish hybrid that would offer a better cycling experience.
2. Cheap ebikes have their place (like cheap regular bikes have their place), but people think a £1000 ebike (or less even) is the same as a £3000 (or more) ebike. People subject cheap ebikes to heavy, sustained use and are then disappointed when they fail, because in their mind £1000 is an expensive bicycle (relative to a 'normal' bike). I get people buying these cheap offerings and doing Deliveroo/Uber eats etc on them. That's not what they were designed for, and yet people end up disappointed, no matter how good the explanation I give them is, both before and after purchase.

I must stress that the above pertains only to the market I operate in, not the higher quality ebikes and those riders that know what they're buying and how to use it properly. Sadly though, due to the accessible price point, I think the overworked cheap ebike makes up a large chunk of the market.

For what it's worth as well, I'd like to see the speed cap lifted to 20-25mph, as I think a lot of cyclists can attain that sort of speed anyway, so it's not like cyclists are going to be zooming around much faster than they were before. This would stop so much disappointment and make the ebike more useful to more people, without being excessively dangerous or giving rise to a nation of hoodlums.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re: Re:

I work in a bike shop, and we sell ebikes at the cheaper end of the scale, which leads to two big problems that make me hate them.
1. Unrealistic expectations
A lot of people expect more from the assistance. They equate speed with power, which is ridiculous. They also get beyond the 15.5mph legal threshold and complain that the bike feels heavy and slow, which of course it will, as the battery and motor is heavy, and if it's a wheel mounted motor will have friction when not powered. Some people even think they are getting something equivalent to a moped or motorbike for a fraction of the price and with no registration, licence or insurance. I am quick to disabuse them of this notion. Different types of ebike have their place, as you all have described above, but a lot of people who come to me wanting ebikes would actually be better off with a lightweight £500ish hybrid that would offer a better cycling experience.
2. Cheap ebikes have their place (like cheap regular bikes have their place), but people think a £1000 ebike (or less even) is the same as a £3000 (or more) ebike. People subject cheap ebikes to heavy, sustained use and are then disappointed when they fail, because in their mind £1000 is an expensive bicycle (relative to a 'normal' bike). I get people buying these cheap offerings and doing Deliveroo/Uber eats etc on them. That's not what they were designed for, and yet people end up disappointed, no matter how good the explanation I give them is, both before and after purchase.

I must stress that the above pertains only to the market I operate in, not the higher quality ebikes and those riders that know what they're buying and how to use it properly. Sadly though, due to the accessible price point, I think the overworked cheap ebike makes up a large chunk of the market.

For what it's worth as well, I'd like to see the speed cap lifted to 20-25mph, as I think a lot of cyclists can attain that sort of speed anyway, so it's not like cyclists are going to be zooming around much faster than they were before. This would stop so much disappointment and make the ebike more useful to more people, without being excessively dangerous or giving rise to a nation of hoodlums.

You can't lift it as it's a danger to pedestrians and other users, imagine them down a shared use path. Injury to others at 15mph is quite different to 25mph The limit also coincides with the speed you are encourage to bugger off back on to the road and off the cycle path/shared use path.
Imaging 10 year old hurtling around at 25mph down pavements and off curbs and on the way to school.
That's why they need to have 'some form' of sense at 16 and do a CBT to ride a moped to get to that sort of speed.



dyna-ti, iirc Bosch pretty much own the e-bike motor market.
Batteries are an interesting one, my local council (well the city next to min half a mile away) were wanting to setup battery stations so people could exchange batteries for a fresh one, to encourage longer commutes into and out of town. But just like cars, there are no true standards yet. So scuttles the idea of using that to encourage people.
I think at the moment it's still a case of buy and chuck it after new tech comes out.
Unless anyone knows better, I'm only reading from the outside and then not too deep into it.

My council have a rental scheme, so people can rent commuter ebikes to use, not sure how that's worked over the year or two its been running.

 

[FluffyChicken]

I'm still deciding :?
Little wheels, or big wheels. Cargo bike type or trail bike :?
Each have their plus points.
I for one would prefer to commute/shop on an E trail bike rather than an E commuter.

Anyone know if it is possible just to buy frame/motor/batt' on these more MTB Ebikes ?. Certainly I dont fancy paying 3 -4 thousand for inhouse branded parts and bottom end brakes and hubs. We al have tons of high end kit. Be nice just to be able to swop it onto an Ebike.

I think you need to go test them out, from people riding them. Crank motors are the better, as they integrate nicer for a better feel with pedalling. Smoother and easer to control. Hubs are not a smooth transition, which may be fine for commuting.

Don't think of them like equipping a normal bike. gears are different etc to get the best out of a power assisted motor, at least for a crank powering one.

But remember your £1000 price increase is paying for a battery and motor (and profit for a trend) so they are never going to start cheap.

 

[Madmax1993]

Re: Re:

For what it's worth as well, I'd like to see the speed cap lifted to 20-25mph, as I think a lot of cyclists can attain that sort of speed anyway, so it's not like cyclists are going to be zooming around much faster than they were before. This would stop so much disappointment and make the ebike more useful to more people, without being excessively dangerous or giving rise to a nation of hoodlums.

You can't lift it as it's a danger to pedestrians and other users, imagine them down a shared use path. Injury to others at 15mph is quite different to 25mph The limit also coincides with the speed you are encourage to bugger off back on to the road and off the cycle path/shared use path.
Imaging 10 year old hurtling around at 25mph down pavements and off curbs and on the way to school.
That's why they need to have 'some form' of sense at 16 and do a CBT to ride a moped to get to that sort of speed.

Ok maybe 25mph is a bit much, but as I said, 20mph is a perfectly attainable speed on a lightweight hybrid on a flat 'shared use path', so the limit could be raised a little quite safely. Why shouldn't an assisted rider be able to go at the speed of a relatively fit 'normal' rider?
As far as I'm aware, you need to be 14 to ride a pedelec anyway, so your point about 10 year olds is facetious and incorrect. I'm not suggesting removing the limit, there's a huge difference between a 40-50mph moped and a 20 (or even 25)mph pedelec. I would keep the assistance only, no throttle rule.

 

[d8mok]

Re:

Ebikes definitely have their place.

Elderly , disabled (or people who have conditions which prevent normal bikes , commuters etc I’m fine with.

But the 40 something mid life crisis brigade in yellow/orange gear and 6ks worth of Specialized are really starting to pee me off on them. Most are actually slower on trails as they have no skill and end up in your way on everything but long climbs.

Personally I’d like to see some sort of license needed and more regulation on where they can be ridden as some are nearer to a motorbike than a pushbike. A bloke near me has a stealth bomber and comes past me on local gravel canal (I average 16-17mph) at around 30-40 I’d guess. It’s pretty cool thing to own but not the place as I’m sure I couldn’t ride my Motorbike along their at same speed without legal issue

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re: Re:

For what it's worth as well, I'd like to see the speed cap lifted to 20-25mph, as I think a lot of cyclists can attain that sort of speed anyway, so it's not like cyclists are going to be zooming around much faster than they were before. This would stop so much disappointment and make the ebike more useful to more people, without being excessively dangerous or giving rise to a nation of hoodlums.

You can't lift it as it's a danger to pedestrians and other users, imagine them down a shared use path. Injury to others at 15mph is quite different to 25mph The limit also coincides with the speed you are encourage to bugger off back on to the road and off the cycle path/shared use path.
Imaging 10 year old hurtling around at 25mph down pavements and off curbs and on the way to school.
That's why they need to have 'some form' of sense at 16 and do a CBT to ride a moped to get to that sort of speed.

Ok maybe 25mph is a bit much, but as I said, 20mph is a perfectly attainable speed on a lightweight hybrid on a flat 'shared use path', so the limit could be raised a little quite safely. Why shouldn't an assisted rider be able to go at the speed of a relatively fit 'normal' rider?
As far as I'm aware, you need to be 14 to ride a pedelec anyway, so your point about 10 year olds is facetious and incorrect. I'm not suggesting removing the limit, there's a huge difference between a 40-50mph moped and a 20 (or even 25)mph pedelec. I would keep the assistance only, no throttle rule.

no it's not, I see plenty of kids riding them, in the same way people take them over 250W.
Because they are not registered and 'just bikes' 14 is one of the daft laws few know about, other than the shops.

if you ever watch 14/15 year olds ride to school and back, they have no sense of the road, they show off and if they're hitting 20mph/25mph swearving around with relative ease, you are asking for trouble. let alone thinking about others on a shared use path.
So I say no, keep it as it is and have another registered category for people who have taken some reasonable learning that wish to have a moped standard bike (not a full motorbike).

And at 20mph, the highway code still says get off the cyclepaths, you probably shouldn't be there, especially the shared use. I assume there is a good reason they say 16mph is when you should think about getting off them.

So at the moment I wouldn't change it, get faster with assist and lines get blurred and people start to get even grumpier. Paths and shared use would get locked down, rather than the, ignore as it's of little problem to injury.

oh and yes I expect 14 and 15 year old to prat around on bikes on the road, it's part of learning.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Re: Re:

Ebikes definitely have their place.

Elderly , disabled (or people who have conditions which prevent normal bikes , commuters etc I’m fine with.

But the 40 something mid life crisis brigade in yellow/orange gear and 6ks worth of Specialized are really starting to pee me off on them. Most are actually slower on trails as they have no skill and end up in your way on everything but long climbs.

Personally I’d like to see some sort of license needed and more regulation on where they can be ridden as some are nearer to a motorbike than a pushbike. A bloke near me has a stealth bomber and comes past me on local gravel canal (I average 16-17mph) at around 30-40 I’d guess. It’s pretty cool thing to own but not the place as I’m sure I couldn’t ride my Motorbike along their at same speed without legal issue

That bike is almost certainly a motorbike/moped.
So yes, legal issues.
https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules