And today I did......

[velomaniac]

Surely as in all previous systems the indexing system is in the shifters not the rear mech and consequently the clutch rear mechs would work just aswell with 9 speed set ups. Ten speeds advantage is allowing ten gears in one cassette which can allow a 1 x 10 set up although in overall ratio a 9 speed 12-36T cassette does the same as a 12-36T 10speed cassette for way less dough. Am I missing something here, is 10 speed completely seperate in compatibility status with anything thats come before ?

 

[velomaniac]

Just checked, the shimano clutch rear mechs are not 10 speed specific and thus this new rear mech tech is not a benefit of 10 speed. You can stick with 9 speed and have the advantage of clutch rear mech.

 

[clubby]

Just checked, the shimano clutch rear mechs are not 10 speed specific and thus this new rear mech tech is not a benefit of 10 speed. You can stick with 9 speed and have the advantage of clutch rear mech.

Complete bollocks I'm afraid. Shimano being the greedy barstewards they are changed the cable pull ratio so that the clutch mech only works with the 10 speed shifters. Apparently it is possible to shim out the cable clamp on a 10spd sram mech so it "works" with 9 spd shimano shifter, but it seems a bit hit or miss. My drivetrain is getting worn out anyway, so the only extra expense is the shifters and rear mech which with a bit of shopping arround came to £120. My old 9 spd xt kit will replace the deore mech and thumbshifters on the fat bike. Those microshift should fetch decent money on the fat bike site which will recoup a bit.

 

[kaiser]

^^^^ wot he said.

 

[velomaniac]

However for us particularly retro types would a friction shifter not work provided it had sufficient cable pull between end stops. i never use index systems for any of my bikes and have shifters that can handle 9 speed.

 

[clubby]

Should do. Thumb shifter movement per gear might be really small though. Shimano changed the cable pull so it varies depending which gear you're shifting into. Alleged theory being that it keeps lever effort the same no matter the shift. Real reason is to make people like me (and Kaiser and ZZ) buy new shifters as well as mechs.
Thing is, I like my retro bikes period and my modern bike modern. No point compromising bike for the sake of £70 shifters.

 

[velomaniac]

With shifters I like friction, always have. I've never been satisfied with Rapidfire, gripshift or any other indexed system as you need to keep tuning them to keep everything clicking precisely into place. Friction allows tuning on the fly plus you do get quite good at shifting precisely with practice. However if hydraulic or electronic index shifting becomes mainstream and cheap I could be pursuaded. The flaw with indexing is not the shifter but the cable that stretches with time. A non stretch cable using the hightech materials of today as opposed to steel wire would be an improvement that could also change my mind.

 

[kaiser]

there's ludites, there's a ludites ludite, then there's Velo.

 

[velomaniac]

A ludite fears technology. I dont fear tech, but I dont accept it blindly unless it does what I require to a level that satisfies me !

 

[gmac123]

Velo I have a degree of empathy with your comments, being brought up on (road) friction shifting, I’d no issue with it nor did the generations of cyclists that preceded sis/rapidfire what-ever you want to call it. The thought of adjustment or cable replacement filled me with dread and normally resulted in knees knocking handlebars with skippy gears. My issue I could never get the tension correct, until I started using a 4th hand/cable puller tool, £12 well spent. Ever since, it’s been install, minor adjust after a few runs and reliable shifting there after.