A Tale of Two Dave Quinns

[RetroDavy]

This thread features not one but two Dave Quinn mountain bikes, one that came to me as a 531 frame to which I've added bits. The other came to me as Karma courtesy of top man Andy (@KondratievsBike).

DQ1 was a very rusty frameset. A lockdown project inspired by a few threads featuring Dawes Rangers and the like. It featured in this brief thread (https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/anyone-know-anything-about-1980s-dave-quinn-mtb-frames.430748/) as I tried to work out who’d made it for Dave Quinn’s shop in Chester, based on the frame number DD342.



@Gtpulse suggested the frame number could point towards Rick Powell. After some further research, this looks likely. DD was ‘DD Enterprises’. Rick built frames under this banner after working at Carlton from the 1950s until 1981, including with Gerald O'Donovan, with DD then in operation from 1981 until 2003 (http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Powell_Rick.htm).


Though I've not heard of DD Enterprises building MTB frames, the two small Ds on the frame number are consistent with Rick's frames. If it is, based on dated numbers (DD200=1985; DD207 = 1986; DD823 = sometime after 1989), this puts it 1986 at earliest. The oversized seat stay caps also have a very Raleigh SDBU look about them and are similar to other DD frames.

These threads were my reference points.
https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/rick-powell-giant-cyclocross.402205/https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/vintage-rick-powell-frame-columbus-sl-campagnolo-sold.352871/https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads...rame-marker-model-please.391011/#post-2893087https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/rick-powell-531c.372270/

 

[RetroDavy]

Its original paint was grey with red (probably) diamonds near the head tube that had faded to almost nothing. Some signs of internal rusting led me to check it out with a cheapo digital endoscope - no pinholes. I treated all the tubes with a soak in Evaporust in the hope of arresting any longer term problems and got it powder coated by Elite Engineering & Powder Coating in Aintree.

Almost all the parts (except seatpost, saddle, headset, freewheel, bottom bracket, grips) came from a 1986 Muddy Fox Courier Mixte that I picked up very dirty, rusty and cheap.

The decals are from H Lloyd. The 531 decal is the same design as the original, which was used 1982-89. If the frame was made 1986 at earliest and the decal used until ‘89, I was happy using this year of Suntour. That 531 tubeset has an ‘anytime during the 80s’ vibe about it in any case.



After a lot of cleaning things up before assembly, it came together. Still not finished-finished (hubs need polishing, rusty spokes sorting, reflectors on pedals refitting etc) but getting there.

 

[RetroDavy]

And that might have been it, but for this popping up in the For Sale thread https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/karma-dave-quinn-501.463428/

We arranged a meet up for the Dave Quinn handover in a service station car park and a bit of retrobike chat. Cheers, Andy!

So, in creepy Papa Lazarou League of Gentlemen voice, ‘You’re my wife now, Dave’.

On first impressions, DQ2 all looks low mileage and in overall good condition. Even a working retro Cateye front light and super late 80s neon paint (with Exage Mountain putting it around 1989). ITM handlebars and Specialized stem.



This weekend, the strip down begins.

>Seatpost, not stuck.
>Stem not stuck, now (after lots of upside-down GT85 and persuasion since last weekend.
>Left pedal, off (after a couple of kettles of boiling water over the crank arm to expand the alloy and try to break the galvanic bond.
>Right pedal, still very stuck following the same treatment so is now in the freezer and will come out for more boiling water, oil and a big stick.

To be continued...

 

[Mod-Master]

I love a good Dave Quinn.

Looking forward to updates

 

[KondratievsBike]

Loving this already… DQ2 is in such better hands

 

[RetroDavy]

The DQ2 clean up is underway. All the grime has come off with lots of GT85 and there are no dents and not that many scrapes. No signs of rust inside.

My working hypothesis is that this was a decent quality mass produced lugged and brazed 501 frame with the fluorescent highlights added to make it Dave Quinn-specific.

Interesting features: the slightly curved over seat stay tops that look nice and neat. The indented chainstays, with the indents on the outside of each, presumably to allow a narrower bottom bracket. The unicrown forks with a narrow and high profile. 126mm rear dropouts.

Weight of frame and forks and Shimano headset is 3.7kg. Frame number is something like 723461, stamped on the BB, but I've not removed paint to check and it's all very faint.

On to the components - the bad news was that no amount of heat and leverage was shifting the RH pedal from the crank, so discretion being the better part of valour has led to a cheap 300LX being bought off eBay. But good news is that everything looks to have very little wear. Chainrings look original and very low mileage. Same for the rims. And the BB and headset races are very clean once the solid manky old grease was cleaned out..

 

[Old Ned]

Interesting thread. I was under the impression that DQ built his own frames and that he had previously worked with Dave Lloyd. Perhaps he only built his better end road frames? A friend has a DQ road bike (which I've still not yet seen Eric!) and he says it is really nice.

 

[RetroDavy]

Thanks. Yes, I can imagine he built some frames and bought in others. I wonder if there's anyone at the Bike Factory in Chester who'd know - maybe Dave himself. I'm not too far away and should make the effort to ask. Likewise, it sounds like Dave Marsh at Universal Cycle Centre in Rotherham may know more about the DD Enterprises frame numbers. It's an interesting puzzle that likely has some simple answers, if I ask the right people.

In the very early 90s, Dave Lloyd brazed a pair of down tube shifter bosses onto my Saracen frame. It was when he had his shop on Clayhill Industrial Estate in Neston, South Wirral. In teenage enthusiasm, I'd been inspired by Nick and Richard Crane's 'Journey to the Centre of the Earth'. (They rode from Bangladesh, over the Himalayas to central Asia on, essentially, 753 racing bikes with one down-tube shifter each, cut down to save weight.) I rode with drop bars and DT friction shifters on that bike for a while, before working out that bar end shifters were not much heavier and more comfortable!

 

[RetroDavy]

A quick update: I got in touch with Dave Marsh at Universal Cycle Centre and he spoke to Rick Powell who confirmed that it isn't one of his frames.

"I have just spoken with Rick and he says that the frame number DD 342 was actually a Lo Profile Time Trial Frame that he built in Reynolds 653 frame tubing , Also the DD used were capital letters so not built by Rick."

So this tells me two things:
1. I need to get in touch with Dave Quinn to find out the origins of these frames
2. Dave Marsh and Rick Powell are top guys for responding to my random request so quickly with useful information

NB, looking at Universal Cycle Centre's Facebook page, it looks like a great choice for retro/classic/vintage bike restorations/paint/wheelbuilding and parts - check it out: https://www.facebook.com/people/Dave-Marsh-Universal-Cycle-Centre/100070712779658/

 

[RetroDavy]

Dave Quinn from The Bike Factory in Chester was also super-helpful when I got in touch with him, though his response has kept the mystery going.

I hadn't included anything in my email about my DQ1 > DD Enterprises idea, or contact with Dave Marsh and Rick Powell. Dave Q nevertheless suggested that the frameset was built for him by "ex ti raleigh sbdu frame builders dd enterprises". I've been back to Dave Marsh who is going to check again as he thinks the frame might have been built by another ex SDBU builder who worked with Rick.

He also confirmed that the frameset for DQ2 was built by Orbit Cycles (https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/all-things-orbit.221678/page-7#post-3451078).

What a great thing to have people who've worked in the industry for decades to be so willing to share their knowledge and memories.