would you buy a bike with a scratched out serial number?

[PeteC]

Curious to hear the groups thoughts on buying a bike with a scratched out serial number. The basic back story goes something like this...

A guy was selling a nice bike on my local CL last month. We corresponded for a bit via text and email. Then he dropped off the face of the planet for about two weeks. Last week, he texts me again asking if I was still interested. I said yes. Then he proceeds to explain that his bike was stolen (explaining the 2 week absence) and that he's recovered it from a pawn shop, based on the parts spec and whatnot. The serial number on the frame is entirely gone.

He doesn't have the original bill of sale (pretty common---I don't have any original bills of sale either) for the bike.

I'm thinking of buying it mainly for the parts (all high-end), but I'm worried I'd be stuck with the frame.

Any thoughts?

p.s., This is not the RM Tibolt ad I posted elsewhere .

 

[Neil]

I probably wouldn't, knowingly - that said, I'm not necessarily sure I'd always think to check.

If I knew, and it wasn't a police auction, then I wouldn't - don't need any hassle that could come out of it, and at the end of the day, they're just bikes - plenty of others around.

 

[PeteC]

All good point, Neil. Thanks. I'm leaning towards 'no' just due to the hassle of it all.

 

[StuPot]

Is it cheap? If so, buy it and put an add on a couple of sites to see if anyone proves it's theirs and buys it back from you (cheap).

Just buy and strip it if that's what you want to do with it.. If someone claims it then all you've gotta do is put it back together.

Even when you come to sell the frame, you've done a bit to try find the original owner and be honest with the next.

I don't know how the police would view this but I'm guessing not far differently.

 

[jonnyboy666]

this is sort of a tough one i always think. don't get me wrong i am in no way suggesting people should buy stolen bikes, especially when you definitely know there are stolen.

that said, we deal with a lot of used parts, frames and whatever else so at somepoint we are bound to come across a dodgy deal here and there.

i for example have my muddy fox courier comp, i bought it via a gumtree advert, it was 100 miles away but i knew i'd be passing that way in a week or so, so i picked it up for £40, it was battered and knackered when i got it, i asked the guy for history, he said he bought from a guy in a pub to use as a pub bike, it does have it's frame number on it, i figured it had been at somepoint stolen in its 20 year life, my attitude was that i was rescuing it from a life of drunken abuse and eventually the scrap heap.

in your case i would suggest it sounds dodgy, it might be worth having a look though, meet the guy, if he's a scruffy looking guy twitching from lack of his next fix then walk away, if on the other hand he's a clean cut guy then i'd be more likely to cut him some slack.

hope that sort of helps.

 

[jonnyboy666]

another thing has just occurred to me,

when i was in the bike trade i used to service the local police bikes, i asked them to clarify the rules regarding stolen bikes.

a customer had bought a bike from us, an orange 5, after a year or so it was stolen, 6 months passed, the bike had been replaced by the insurance company but the original bike turned up in another local shop, they phoned us because it needed some work they were not capable of, it was bought on ebay by the guy that dropped it into the shop. when i asked the police if it was the right thing to do to take the bike back he said it depended whether the new owner had bought the bike in "good faith" as to whether or not it was illegally bought, if the new owner bought it not knowing it was stolen then he IS the new owner legally, if he bought it knowing it was a stolen bike then he can be charged with receiving stolen goods, but realistically he'd probably get a slap on the wrist.

also, if the bike was recovered then technically it belongs to the insurance company as opposed to the original owner as the insurance company had paid for a replacement, the original owner would be expected to buy the old bike back off the insurance company if the original owner wanted it back.

 

[Neil]

another thing has just occurred to me,

when i was in the bike trade i used to service the local police bikes, i asked them to clarify the rules regarding stolen bikes.

a customer had bought a bike from us, an orange 5, after a year or so it was stolen, 6 months passed, the bike had been replaced by the insurance company but the original bike turned up in another local shop, they phoned us because it needed some work they were not capable of, it was bought on ebay by the guy that dropped it into the shop. when i asked the police if it was the right thing to do to take the bike back he said it depended whether the new owner had bought the bike in "good faith" as to whether or not it was illegally bought, if the new owner bought it not knowing it was stolen then he IS the new owner legally, if he bought it knowing it was a stolen bike then he can be charged with receiving stolen goods, but realistically he'd probably get a slap on the wrist.

also, if the bike was recovered then technically it belongs to the insurance company as opposed to the original owner as the insurance company had paid for a replacement, the original owner would be expected to buy the old bike back off the insurance company if the original owner wanted it back.

Funny you should say that, but I always believed that the bike would still be the property of the original owner (victim of theft). I suppose it's possible an insurance company may feel they have claim over it and / or recompense from what has been paid out, but I suspect it would depend on the terms of the insurance contract as to whether they could truly claim it should be their property.

If somebody bought it in "good faith" I thought had no bearing on whether they could consider it theirs, once it's been discovered stolen (unless it then becomes "lost" or unclaimed), but would have a bearing on whether they would be likely considered for having received stolen goods.

The thing I think of, here, is that if a bike has had the serial number scratched, defaced, or removed - something clearly iffy has happened. From where I'm sat, that's hassle I don't need - no deal is that good it could be worth complications. But that's merely my take, and I don't do much buying or selling of bikes, anyways, just the hoarding.

 

[jonnyboy666]

i know what you mean, i don't really get it, the whole "good faith" thing i mean, i am just repeating what i was told by a copper, my attitude is that it seems wrong as for example, if a car is stolen it is returned to the owner and repaired or whatever, same with antiques as far as i know, why should bikes be different? maybe it comes down to ease of returning to the original owner? cars can be tracked relatively easily, with bikes i suppose it's harder so the law might have a different attitude as they may consider it a "petty" crime.

 

[Neil]

i know what you mean, i don't really get it, the whole "good faith" thing i mean, i am just repeating what i was told by a copper, my attitude is that it seems wrong as for example, if a car is stolen it is returned to the owner and repaired or whatever, same with antiques as far as i know, why should bikes be different? maybe it comes down to ease of returning to the original owner? cars can be tracked relatively easily, with bikes i suppose it's harder so the law might have a different attitude as they may consider it a "petty" crime.

Well I guess the thing is, the police aren't going to do much about a bike without a serial number on, unless there's a complaint, or some other reason for them to be interested (ie in the possession of some ne'er-do-well).

I suppose could be different, though, if the bike was a bit unusual or recognisable, and is then sold on - well I suppose only, likely, if then sold on online, with accompanying pictures.

 

[painter09]

when all is said and done the numbers have been removed to hide the true identity of the bike and that could have been done at any time in its life, but that dosent mean its still a stolen bike, lets face it how many people buy bikes with the numbers still intact that are actualy stolen and still missing from the original legal owner ? theives are getting clever these days and leave the numbers on any bikes they steel to make it easier to sell on as 99% of buyers would walk away from a bike with no numbers and theives know this, clever people now mark their bikes and parts with ultraviolet markers and use ulltraviolet lights to show this, i have and use a light for just such purposes and it works a treat, the look of dread on a sellers face when someones post code or mobile number shows up under the light says it all, and its the sellers themselves that give me a clue as to wether a bike may be iffy or not, a nice clean respectable looking seller at his house makes me a lot more confident the bikes legit rather than the fidgety looking guy who keeps knoking down his own price ( i have seen this ) to get a sale or the guy that looks like hes in need of some drugs or wants you to meet on a carpark with your hard earned beer tokens, they are the ones to steer clear of,

so as to your question ??? would i buy a bike with no numbers on it ? it would have to be no, to much of an headache realy, especialy if you get questioned over it and the guy you got it from denies thats the actual bike he sold you