Why Don't I like the 'good' bikes?

[coomber]

Once again, thank you for taking the time and trouble of writing to Bob Martin

Thanks Bob Martin

 

[john]

Wonder how many times we can have the same discussion.

Retrobike is indeed a broad church. Much as there is no place for snobbery there is also no place for inverted snobbery. If someone wants to spend every waking hour and every last penny building the rarest of the rare and hang it on a wall that is fine. If someone wants to spend significantly less on a 20 year old raleigh and ride the hell out of it that's also fine.

 

[cornholio's RC200]

Your Raleigh's great John; certainly put my Vit to the sword in the Peaks

 

[john]

Your Raleigh's great John; certainly put my Vit to the sword in the Peaks

i didn't particularly mean my own Raleigh. Could equally subsitute kona, saracen, marin whatever.

 

[JohnH]

Retrobike is indeed a broad church. Much as there is no place for snobbery there is also no place for inverted snobbery. If someone wants to spend every waking hour and every last penny building the rarest of the rare and hang it on a wall that is fine. If someone wants to spend significantly less on a 20 year old raleigh and ride the hell out of it that's also fine.

Cheers John. I'll be quoting your words the next time I'm told that a Saracen Sahara is "shite".

 

[Slow6]

After a year looking through the readers wives section I have to say it's not cheap that makes a bike boring.. it's boring that makes a bike boring.. The best build threads on here are those by inventive and imaginative members who put their own flair into their builds and come up with something that keeps me frozen in front of the monitor for a few minutes while I soak it in. Those builds are all over the chart.. ultra high end gear that I had no idea existed bitd, lower end frames and 30's clunkers.

I would not call this forum snobbish at all.. for example I have read disparaging remarks about "Generalized" bikes many times but when it comes time to post up a thread for my own Generalized I get nothing but kind remarks and encouragement.. the generalized haters seem happy to quietly keep their hate to themselves and move along.. on most other forums I would not be extended this courtesy.

 

[hydorah]

Erk!

I feel a bit bad one several counts

I'm not meaning to seem snobby or oppressive

Don't want to be banging on the same conversation that everyone has heard a million times

I'm not trying to suggest cheap is bad -

My first build on here? Total cost inc bike £265

I have several fully functioning bikes that are made in Taiwan and cost £30

There's a lot of merit to many mass market bikes, many are significant in their own way, to different folks

What I'm trying to angle at some bikes have design choices which facilitate cheap production and prove to have severe drawbacks in use

They appear on here sometimes

Members of this forum make observations on these features, as I believe they should be entitled to

And sometimes the owners of the bikes freak out

I don't think this is cool

There are a lot of experienced people on this forum and I personally feel new members might do well not to leap straight on the defensive and to learn from this experience that is available to them

Probably just dug my hole a bit deeper but there you go!

 

[cornholio's RC200]

Your Raleigh's great John; certainly put my Vit to the sword in the Peaks

i didn't particularly mean my own Raleigh. Could equally subsitute kona, saracen, marin whatever.

You did ride the he'll out of it though... That hill climb was something to behold

 

[pete_mcc]

“There shouldn't be any interest in it on here as this is supposed to be a bike enthusiasts/connoisseur site”

“This is just a pressed steel retro BSO, it wasn't any good then and certainly shouldn't be here now”

These are just two recent comments about lower end bikes, and while the words "less valid" are not actually used, there's certainly an implication that they don't deserve to be on this site.

As Dr S says, those quotes were focused on individual bikes listed in eBay watch, not at peoples personal bikes. I, for one, never attack people or their personal bikes except LGFs 'yellow peril' but that was deserved.

What you and a lot of people seem to confuse is the difference between good bikes and expensive bikes (even John made that mistake in his earlier comment)

I will happily slate any bike that is widely accepted as shite, any bike that was acknowledged as shite when new, any bike that was badly reviewed back in the day or any bike that I owned and found to be substantially lacking. I do this partly through a dislike of the bikes, partly as a way of ensuring that people don't spend their hard earned money on them.

There are people on this site who are fortunate to be young enough not to remember some bikes first time round, they might not remember the u-brake under the chainstay phase and why it died out in the UK, they might not remember that early suntour trigger shifters required an arm of steel or that biopace was wrongly aligned. They may not know that raleigh bikes often came with steel rims that would take a year to slow with plastic levers in the wet or that BSOs are not the same as budget bikes.

I often find that there are 4 loose groups on here (amongst the millions of other categorisations):

1) There are people on here who take the passion for these bikes to extremes. They will collect the best bikes available and have the money to spend accordingly, but they are not buying expensive bikes, they are buying the best bikes they can, bits of history, rarities or bits of engineering excellence. No true collector or affionado/illuminati/whatever name you choose to call them will go out and spend big money on a shite bike just because it's expensive. Let's call them Charlie C or Gary Ks

2) There are guys who have extreme passion but not the deep pockets and these guys still buy the best bikes available. They don't buy shite bikes just because they haven't got the trust fund/bankers salary/criminal record of the rich guys, they still buy the best they can. Let's call them Stumpers or Clockers

3) There are guys with no money who have all the knowledge and extreme passion and are able to spot the bargain in the midst of the eBay dross. They don't buy shite bikes just because they have to spend all their money on kids/family/a life, they buy the best bikes available. Let's call them 'Mystery bikes with History

All three groups share a passion but more importantly they share a knowledge and experience, and they share it with each other

Then there are guys who buy any old shite and winge and complain about snobbery and elitism if any comment is passed about a pile of rusting rubbish on eBay. These guys expect smoke to be blown somewhere just because they bought some old BSO and ride it to the shop having rattle-canned it and covered it in halfords. They have no opinion other than a strange belief that old, cheap and secondhand equals retro and deserves as much air time on here as a bike that has been loved, restored, or ridden in anger, they then defend their ignorance by shouting some tired cliches instead of taking some of the knowledge that others share on this site. Let's call them painful

I know full well which group I am in and am not embarrassed by it, I earn my money and have no kids to spend it on, i have 22 years experience of riding mountain bikes, 30 years of riding bikes and 5 years of working in the trade. I have a daft knowledge of 80/90s mountain bikes based on the fact that I could never afford the cool bikes as a kid so read about them instead. I have owned, sold, fixed and binned more shite bikes than most and will happily share that with others, often too vocally.


Just as a final point, a bit of irony, we had a thread about retro bikes of quality that descended into an 'elitism' thread, yet when we had a thread about retro bikes of the future the only bikes mentioned were expensive, top end ones. Strange, eh?

 

[SeeingisBelievingGTMuseum]

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the qualitles of a good steel frame, I've spent time on a Dave yates, and an explosif, but I don't lust after them.

I don't feel a hankering for Kleins (never have), and have never even mustered a passing fancy in titanium (except, strangely, for the dynatech lugged frames).

I find myself looking dreamily at lavadomes and clockworks. If anyone has a Rocklobster lying around, let me know.

Exceptions I have: Trek OCLVs, GT LTS (not exactly breathtaking), San Andreas' and Amps. All, in there own way, mass-produced, and less than exclusive.

I don't want XTR. XT is good, but DX was always adequate. I simply don't need Kevlar beaded tyres.

Anyone else feeling this?

Obviously on a limited bank roll. Sell what's not giving you the "kick" you are seeking and try another pasture.

I think there are many of us in the 40-50 yr age range that maybe couldn't afford the top of the line DX/XT bikes back in "the day". Some may have ridden 200GS, Exage maybe a Mountain LX bike so we can accept a lower level bike when posted because maybe it's all we could afford back then. Then there's some who worked in shops back then and raced and rode the best available back then and won't even think of looking at something less. I guess I just don't visit the threads on the lower end bikes. I know there is also a population here that couldn't afford anything more than a 200GS bike back in the day but visited their local bike shop weekly to stare again at the bike on the top of the display rack and dream of owning one someday and for many here that day is now. The income has increased and some have emptied the nest and they can afford it now.