Why Don't I like the 'good' bikes?

[legrandefromage]

If you think Retrobike is elitist and snobbish, that is a shame as it is no where near as up its own backside as:

http://i vmtb.com/people.php?PageAction=SignOutNow&ReturnUrl=http://ivmtb.com/

You have to be invited to join. That says it all.

But, there are bikes that are all things bad about cycling - you may be the 'seasoned rider' in full knowledge of how bad a Raleigh Mustang can be, but you put yourself in the place of someone making their first purchase at Tesco or Asda. Their first opinion of cycling is 'this is shit! why did I waste my money??' BSO now are no different to BSOs of the past, utter crap that have no place in cycling history other than as a warning of what not to buy.

Not elitism or snobberry, just basic engineering facts and common sense.

 

[silverclaws]

I have an engineering mentality, I now the caracteristics of metals, I work with the stuff as a blacksmith and am currently researching the use of aluminium alloys, so I can discern what will be upto the job and what will not, or be a risk. Now I understand about tooling and what it costs to manufacture a part, the bigger manufacturers win in this respect, but usually they have what is considered a lowly brand name, Zoom, kalloy, Trans X for example. For some reason the Far East tends to come up with less stylish brand names.

Now, I have always used the lower brand names, I actually seek them because none have ever broken on me and they do the job asked of them. Weight, well, what is the difference between a high end alloy component and a similar low end alloy component, a few grammes, does this matter to most, hardly, the racer or weight weenie maybe, but not the great majority of us, weight can be shed in other ways, or just get fitter.

If it's colours you are after, well, we all now we can get anodising done, and if one wants a specific part for their bike, how about design it yourself and get a local machine shop to make it. CNC, excellent for production runs, but a skilled tradesman with a lathe and a milling machine can do as well and there are many industries that use specialist alloys if a specialist alloy is required.

But my ideal bike, and maybe one day is The Cleland Aventura TT, as it ticks many of my boxes and some of those boxes go back to back in the day, the limitations I discovered in my most active period of riding.

As it is, my local bunch of riders, all blokes in their mid forties ride an assortment of low end bikes, two Saracens, a GT and two bso's, a Raleigh Katmandu and a Raleigh Attitude, all '90's bikes, they all work flawlessly. Heavy, but then we are, and unfit with that. The current plan, is to when the weather gets better, is ride out to the moors, a local well known route where there just happens to be a pub at the destination, have a few beers then ride back, what more do does one want.

 

[one-eyed_jim]

The fact that the bikes are more common makes them no less Retro.

That's true, but it does tend to make them less interesting.

I can see both sides of the argument. While I love to come here and see beautiful, exotic (not to say expensive and occasionally fragile) bikes, there are very few I actually aspire to own. I'm a retrobiker because the bikes I ride have grown older with me. I ride mass-produced frames I can hammer without guilt, and commodity parts I can replace when they wear out. By and large, I don't post about them because they're just not that interesting.

I've never seen a Nitanium Rockhopper with a rusted-out seat tube. I'd still rather come here and see a worm-eaten Yo Eddy, or a cracked Manitou or Pace than fifty solid, dependable Rockhoppers.

 

[lewis1641]

i dont really think there is any elitism or snobbery on the site, just an inability to read comments properly sometimes.

there are some members who have vocal about what should and shouldnt be on the site but they dont go on someone's build thread saying its a load of tosh if it isnt up to scratch. there are forums where that does happen.

these members have only been vocal (from what i remember anyway) when asked.

 

[BarneyRubble]

I see both sides of the argument as well. I have owned modern high end bikes and enjoyed riding them, but it was only when I got my 94 Lava Dome and joined this site that I rediscovered the "fun" in cycling and became far more enthusiastic than I had been for years. I started revisiting the trails of my youth that had been written off (by me) as not "gnarly" enough and do you know what I discovered? They were brilliant fun - not amazingly fast or technical, just grin inducing fun.

Admittedly the Lava Dome has none of the parts I started with other than F+F, (the latter are about to be replaced with some RC36's) and every component is high end, but to me it is still a Lava Dome. I am occasionally tempted to chop the frame in for an explosif or Hei Hei, but will it be that much better? Plus I really like the green on the Lava Dome!

 

[bushpig]

I am not clear on what the two sides of the argument are.

 

[Rod_Saetan]

It would appear there is a sense of 'inverted snobbery' from some folk on this site too, those who are almost evangelical about the lower end bikes.

 

[gerryattrick]

I know it's only shorthand for describing a rubbish bike but I hate the phrase BSO when used on sites like this to describe a bike.

The term is so subjective and condescending as to be meaningless and usually means any bikes below a level set by the contributor. A bike may be a tatty bike, an ugly bike, a badly assembled bike, a cheap bike or even an expensive TI bike, but it's still a bike and if it's fit for purpose, then so what.

I've had “BSOs” that have performed perfectly adequately to get me to the shops and back or the odd trip around country parks so as far as I'm concerned they've been good bikes.

There is undoubtedly an element of elitism on this site e.g. when people imply that certain bikes shouldn't really be on the site then that is elitism.

The site is about retro bikes not just about top-end retro bikes - the top of the page says "If it's old school it's in".

I'm aware of people saying that they like lower range old bikes and saying there's a lot of fun to be had out of them, but almost evangelical - I don't think so. I'm much more aware of people being almost evangelical about Fat Chance, Klein, Merlin etc. - just read the posts.

 

[Malvern Rider]

Vertex vs (Raleigh) Apex ...

Reading back over what I wrote, neglected to say that the Vertex was in nearly every way more fun. It was an inspiring ride, had the 'feel-good' factor in spades, it was really light, direct yet reassuring and comfortable all day long.


So why did I enjoy the Dawes Tracker ATB so much more? Nothing at all to do with inverted snobbery - simply that where my head was at the time, combined with great fitness levels (read 'youth') all gave me the most positive feedback and effective output. I didn't know that there were enormously better MTBs out there, I thought the top of the line was another Dawes at about £400.00 (had still yet to purchase that MBUK magazine).

Guaranteed if I'd been able to source and afford an 853 or Ti supercycle I would have had even more fun. But the best thing is that I couldn't have been happier at the time, and sadly have yet to replicate that boy/bike relationship with any subsequent acquisitions. Although the Kona Ute comes close. Especially with a Brooks sprung saddle. I have high hopes for the M-Trax...maybe it was the thumbies...maybe it was the framesize...maybe I should shut up...

 

[rumpfy]

I am all for people buying, rebuilding and loving the lower end stuff, however I cannot understand when people say 'its all I can afford', especially when they have 10 bikes that are all worth little, why not sell 5 of those cheaper bikes and buy one better bike? (its subjective/relative, its specifically vague, Im feeling incendiary)

I have no money to buy bikes (officially), however the last two bikes I bought were less than £100 each, and both are handbuilt (fillet brazed, from good quality tubing, by well respected builders), well specced and came from eBay and Gumtree - anyone else had as much chance of landing those bikes as me.

Exactly.

It would appear there is a sense of 'inverted snobbery' from some folk on this site too, those who are almost evangelical about the lower end bikes.

Seems only fair...and I won't hate them for it. I like to think of it as jealousy though.