When was the Mountain Bike Invented? And who by?

Looks is very much a secondary consideration to me. How it rides is paramount, and living and riding daily in the UK it'd be nice to have something that works properly in the mud.

The whole Cleland thing didn't fail because there is no market. It failed in the early days because of the ignorance and shortsightedness of the British industry, and by the time they eventually came round Apps was having business and patent problems of his own.

As a consequence they were batch produced, hand made machines and very expensive as a result, and this is what kneecapped them.

It's fortune, luck and happenstance that gave us the industry we have today, not the superiority of obviously inferior American designs and concepts.

Id have a Cleland it Highpath tomorrow were they still available. Not to look at, but to ride, and ride hard, much like my do-it-all Giant Trance X does today, and that ain't a looker either.
 
The first US built 'Mountain Bikes' were "batch produced, hand made machines and very expensive as a result." but they couldn't keep up with demand.

If Clelands failed to take off, its nothing to do with what they cost (as above, the first American bikes were also hand made and expensive) so its either that they were introducing into the wrong market, they promoted it poorly or the product itself was flawed.

The market for an off road bike was clearly there as the 'US style' bikes flew off the shelves, which means that Clelands failiure is down to either poor business practise or just having a product that no-one wanted in any significant numbers.
 
The US is a market five times as large as the UKs.

much of the southern half of the US is climactally better suited to that style of bike.

And the US economy was, per capita, vastly outperforming the British economy right up until the 1990s, so it's not a valid comparison on any level.

The US machines came here already backed by good performing brands. Vid the UK market hadn't taken to them I doubt it wouldve bothered the yanks much.

It was the late 80's by the time The UK market started to show significant growth, 6 or 7 after poor old Apps had been rebuffed by the likes of Dawes, as can be seen from the letter above. By the time UK manufacturers had cottoned on it was too late for Apps and his technically superior ( for the era and the UK climate) solution.

Just because a design prevailed, doesn't make it technically the best solution. The vagaries of business, stubbornness and even politics all dipped their oar into this one. For example, Fisher himself stuck with 26" designs, not because he thought they were better but because at the time there was no reliable large volume supply of the 700c Finnish Hrakka tyres that Apps proposed. That's a supply and manufacturing dictum, not a market one.
 
anyway your all wrong it was me grandad.he put nails from his boots through tyres, strapped a candle to bars and used to race down in t' mine...
 
klunkerbill":2yeo69hi said:
No one person invented the bikes, or the sport. At least, that was the idea behind the film, but J.F. Scott made a pretty sweet off-road bike in 1953. Multiple gears, flat bars, good brakes, fat tires, etc. He passed away shortly after I released Klunkerz, so I dedicated the film to his memory. I also made a little film to honor his induction into the MTB HOF in '08. It is now included in the DVD extras on the new Klunkerz discs. Here's a clip...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHWo_h1nBx4

Hi klunkerbill,

I too would cite John Finlay Scott's 1953 "Woodsie" bike as the earliest bicycle I know of to have all the key features of what we now call mountain bikes. Apparently the NorCal pioneers knew of J.F. Scott so his ideas may have inspired them?

As for Geoff Apps designs.

You must remember that Cleland Cycles went out of business in 1984 well before mountain bike sales took off. They cost £430 at a time when people expected to pay about £100 for a bike.

Highpath versions were much more expensive at up to £2,000 and the demand meant that there was a waiting time from order to delivery of over a year.

*Niche? most probably.
US style mountain bikes did look more sporty and stylish. Because of this my first mountain bike was a Ritchey copy even though I had test ridden a Cleland. But Apps' copying of trials motorbike geometry was a smart move. And I was lucky enough to be able to ride my US style bike alongside Clelands on English trails. There are some things that US mountain bikes do best and others that Clelands excel at. For instance my 1983 Cleland can climb steeper slopes than most modern bikes due of its unusual out of the saddle weight distribution characteristics.

It is wrong to believe that just because a particular design works well, that their can't also be other alternative but equally effective solutions.

The fact that you can't buy or even test ride Cleland style bikes means that riders are denied the choice. I hear from some riders who are forced to give up due to back, neck or wrist problems. For some of these a Cleland style bike could be a solution.


*slow? There is no law of physics that makes them inherently slow apart from the weight of the old tyres and components. Aerodynamic effects of the upright riding position are minimal as average off-road riding speeds are not fast enough to be significant. A strong rider on a Cleland or a Highpath can move pretty quickly. I do not consider myself to be a strong rider but I can usually keep up with the local club rides.
 

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To use an analogy used earlier in this thread:

I am simply trying to convince a group of committed and enthusiastic Homo-Sapiens that Neanderthal-Man is worth resurrecting. Not that they are better or first on the scene but because they are simply distinctive and different.

Meanwhile I am taking my "Neanderthal-Man" (AKA 1983 Cleland) to Suffolk for a few days. So the discussion will have to continue without me for a while. :cool:
 
Chopper1192":3t2err3p said:
Loving that Cleland so much a bit of sex wee just leaked out! Always wanted one since I read an interview with Apps he gave on his 40th Birthday, c.1988. Alas, I've never seven seen one in the flesh :(

I'm 4 miles from a High path:

img_2012051319115_201.jpg
 
Although Klunkers are built from old Schwins - I'll never see the Bomber as anything more than a miserable pastiche. Further on in that Raleigh article, you'll read that the Bomber was made out of an old Nigerian sold roadster.
 
This is an interesting thread for me to read, thanks for all the interest.
Here's a bit of history that I haven't told before, mainly because the cycle trade in the UK is very small, and now I guess much water has passed under the bridge; the main character is dead. There may have been a conspiracy, I don't know.
Here is the reason Cleland Cycles went out of business:
Cleland Cycles was run on a shoestring. There was no 'working capital'. I depended on the credit of my suppliers for working capital. In other words; I ordered parts, built the bikes, sold them, then paid for the components.
Aventuras were produced in batches of ten. Nearly all the components were ordered in tens from Ron Kitching in Harrogate, and I mostly dealt with Jack Conroy who was the depot manager. Most components were fairly standard and could be sourced elsewhere if necessary. However, there was one item which was a special order from SunTour and not available anywhere else. This item was critical to the whole build of each Aventura.
So, there I am, ready to start the next batch of ten, components begin arriving from various suppliers, work on sub-assemplies starts, with the help of my unpaid helper Mark Henfield.
All the stuff from Kitchings arrives; I lay it all out, sorting into batches for each bike; and then I discover, no freewheels. I phone Jack in Harrogate.
It was clear; I wouldn't get them until I paid the bill for this lot of components ~ my account was up to date for all previous purchases.
I was stuffed. I was also probably an idiot to tell them how critical this component was to my business.
Chickens at Dunstable was not too far away. They could supply a french-threaded freewheel of slightly lesser quality than SunTour (I can't remember the brand, but it was good and well-known) but the cluster was not at all right for the Aventura. I'd have to buy the blocks complete along with sets of sprockets, then dismantle each one and rebuild a compromise cluster. The wide-range clusters now so readily available simply did not exist in those days; the SunTour ones were made up specially in Japan. This matter was getting urgent, I wasn't getting much sleep and my garage was already full of surplus, unwanted componentry that I didn't have time to dispose of.
I explained my dilemma to Cedric Chicken; he said 'no problem, for a relatively small extra cost, he would have the freewheel blocks made up with the required sprockets for me.
Phew! Problem solved.
A week passed, no news from Chickens. Final demand from Kitchings.
Another week passed, Cedric was getting very irritated when I phoned about the freewheels. What do I do now? Several bikes are ready for my customers, just waiting for the freewheels. Three were tracked-down at Richmond Cycles by a friend, who very kindly purchased them and brought them up to the Cleland 'factory' at Rowsham, and such is my gratitude that I can't remember now who it was.
Meanwhile Ron Kitching, in the voice of Jack Conroy, is adament; "You cannot use our credit facility for your working capital." They had the freewheels I ordered, but would not release them until I paid up, and I simply did not have the cash, and wouldn't, until I sold the completed Aventuras.
Bank loan? You're joking, of course.
After several more calls to Cedric, it eventually became obvious I would not be getting any freewheels from there.
Then Kitchings sent the bailiffs in to bankcrupt me.
Cleland Cycles Limited was not officially liquidated, but the there was so little left afterwards, and I was completely frazzled, that production could not continue. Financially I had nothing left. Sources of finance to continue the business required such ridiculous conditions they were useless to my situation, most requiring match-funding from (you guessed it) MUGGINS! Sweat equity? Pah!
Another episode in the enthralling Cleland Cycles Story. If you've read this far, thankyou. Although I've referred to it obliquely, I've not really detailed this aspect of the Cleland history before, and it's quite a relief to get it off my chest after all these years.
But still the question remains; why did Ron Kitching behave in this way? It is inexplicable, unless there were forces at work behind the scenes.
Who knows, who cares now...
 
...hmmm, well, I feel quite emotional after that last post.
Thinking about it, I was an easy target for what one may term 'commercial rape'.
Who knows what would have been the future for Cleland Cycles if Ron Kitching hadn't figuratively wanked over me.
I guess, wherever his soul resides now, he is still wanking.
Such is the way of business, particularly in the UK...
 
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