What state is retro biking in at the moment?

[fagin]

Of course. You're right and most other people on the site are wrong.

If you wet your pants at the prospect of "modern" bikes that demonstrate little evolution / innovation in the last 25 years, then go ahead, however this probably isn't the right forum for you.

As a former TdF mechanic who's still involved with a pro team today, I suspect I know a good deal more about top spec component performance than most. You happen to be wrong, but there you go... from an "empirical" (sic) standpoint, or indeed any other.

Bit harsh

Why can't someone wet their pants at old and new.

To argue that there has been little evolution over the past 25 years is just silly.

Geometry has changed (slacker head angles, shorter top tubes), tyre compounds improved, suspension (and suspension design) is massively improved (unless you ride an Orange 5), materials (correct use of aluminium, plus affordable composites), shifters (whatever rose tinted specs you wear, thumbies are pretty rubbish), seriously good hydraulic brakes (cheap entry level Shimano Deore are unbelievably good) etc.

What we ride has also changed. A lot rougher and steeper.

I currently have eleven bikes, ranging from early 80's (road with downtube shifters), MTB with thumbies, various with canti brakes, some V's, random discs, rigids, hardtails, steel, aluminium to modern FS.

They are all fun to ride, but when things get serious, and I need to try and keep up with youngsters on the latest equipment, the modern FS (short travel and very light) gets used. It's just more capable, simple as that.

 

[Neil]

Of course. You're right and most other people on the site are wrong.

If you wet your pants at the prospect of "modern" bikes that demonstrate little evolution / innovation in the last 25 years, then go ahead, however this probably isn't the right forum for you.

As a former TdF mechanic who's still involved with a pro team today, I suspect I know a good deal more about top spec component performance than most. You happen to be wrong, but there you go... from an "empirical" (sic) standpoint, or indeed any other.

Bit harsh

Why can't someone wet their pants at old and new.

To argue that there has been little evolution over the past 25 years is just silly.

Geometry has changed (slacker head angles, shorter top tubes), tyre compounds improved, suspension (and suspension design) is massively improved (unless you ride an Orange 5), materials (correct use of aluminium, plus affordable composites), shifters (whatever rose tinted specs you wear, thumbies are pretty rubbish), seriously good hydraulic brakes (cheap entry level Shimano Deore are unbelievably good) etc.

What we ride has also changed. A lot rougher and steeper.

I currently have eleven bikes, ranging from early 80's (road with downtube shifters), MTB with thumbies, various with canti brakes, some V's, random discs, rigids, hardtails, steel, aluminium to modern FS.

They are all fun to ride, but when things get serious, and I need to try and keep up with youngsters on the latest equipment, the modern FS (short travel and very light) gets used. It's just more capable, simple as that.

Not that either bandwagon is normally too slow for me... I'm a bit ambivalent to it all, but I have to ask, what the fvck is so rubbish about indexed thumbies?

 

[Nutters22000]

Re:

I joined the site after seeking help on google about the correct size headset for my C16 frameset. It gave me the link to this site. I registered and admot I didnt think I'd use it that much. But I really enjoy coming on here. I do spend some time in the for sale section as I've been sourcing parts for my retro build. But its an excellent site for general chait chat and advice. I know I've been helped by members on here especially the u brake set up problem I had. My man hobby is restoring these old bikes. I dont ride as often as I should due to epilepsy. But I love being in my shed and spending hours tinkering around. Thanks Retro bike members for a fab site ;-)

 

[fagin]

Not that either bandwagon is normally too slow for me... I'm a bit ambivalent to it all, but I have to ask, what the fvck is so rubbish about indexed thumbies?

Must be just my mediocre skills, but modern ones are a lot easier to shift quickly.

 

[erolorhun]

Wow, that was pretty harsh and very condescending of you. Take a deep breath if you get that wound up what I write about some old bikes. Also pretty low of you to point out my grammatical errors. May I also suggest that you take a step down from your high horse.

Since you are a former Pro Tour-mechanic with access to The Knowledge (tm), explain to me how bikes, components, materials and geometry have not evolved during the last 25 years please.

I`ve been a member of this wonderful, passionate forum for close to a decade. Started road- and mountainbiking in the late eighties and been around the block a fair few times now. I own and have owned countless retro- and modern bikes of all sorts. Cruisers, commuters, handmade titanium roadbikes, freeride bikes, downhill-rigs etc etc. I appreciate all kinds of bicycles new and old for what they are, their place in history and what they led to. Fagin here above put it well. If I could "like" a post I would his.

 

[FluffyChicken]

Not that either bandwagon is normally too slow for me... I'm a bit ambivalent to it all, but I have to ask, what the fvck is so rubbish about indexed thumbies?

Must be just my mediocre skills, but modern ones are a lot easier to shift quickly.

The benefit of that for the average rider is? Feck all other than it takes less effort. (My m750 are leaps and bound easier than my m900 shifter but both shift perfectly fine into the selected gear. Not once has the ease of moving the leaver actually caused me a problem.

(And I'm not a thumbie lover at all)


There a niche group of riders where the benefits actually help and the full sus modern bikes come into their own, there is no doubt about that
But they are not average Joe where a bike that works is the actual need. Modern makes no difference to that, the amount of modern bike I see with rubbing discs, poor general worn setup after a sort time, shafted suspension and the rider complaining about the bikes means that nothing has changed other than for some reason they always seem to be able to clean them much easier.

And the number of snapped mech hanger must mean they are using them as a cash-cow profiteering system now.


But that has nothing to do with the state of retrobiking.

There is however an increase in retrobikers buying expensive modern bike (especially compared to the price of retro) because they have either a grand to spend on bike to work or they need a top dollar comfort system and the high front end (which brought about the angle and top tube changes, it's a reaction to something else changing not an evolution wonder idea) for their aging body that needs it.

 

[rjsdavis]

To argue that there has been little evolution over the past 25 years is just silly.

Geometry has changed (slacker head angles, shorter top tubes), tyre compounds improved, suspension (and suspension design) is massively improved (unless you ride an Orange 5), materials (correct use of aluminium, plus affordable composites), shifters (whatever rose tinted specs you wear, thumbies are pretty rubbish), seriously good hydraulic brakes (cheap entry level Shimano Deore are unbelievably good) etc.

Unfortunately, I can't take this list of examples very seriously at all:

Geometry has changed (slacker head angles, shorter top tubes) - not necessarily for the better. Are you either a racer or frame-builder? These changes are more orientated towards comfort for the masses than out and out performance, combined with sharper rising stems and sit up and beg bars.

Tyre compounds improved - is that why a very large proportion of people on here would still chose a Panaracer Smoke above all other tyres? A tyre compound and design that hasn't changed in 24 years? I'd still chose a Vittoria Corsa CX Squadre Prof silk herringbone from 1988 above any other road tyre that has come before or since. Probably the best tyre ever made.

Suspension (and suspension design) is massively improved (unless you ride an Orange 5) - Along with the weight in many instances. Most riders don't even need suspension. It's only really a requirement for down-hilling at high speed.

Materials (correct use of aluminium, plus affordable composites) - I think Gary Klein would have a good argument with you on the "correct use of aluminium" - something he was doing 25 years ago better than anyone else by a long chalk, and I've yet to see a better made aluminium frame than the iconic Attitude (pre-Trek obviously).

Shifters (whatever rose tinted specs you wear, thumbies are pretty rubbish) - thanks for the insult on "rose tinted specs" - but again, I think you'll find that you're in a very small minority in suggesting that the M730 series Thumbies are anything other than the best shifters ever made.

Seriously good hydraulic brakes (cheap entry level Shimano Deore are unbelievably good). Again, Magura were making "seriously good hydraulic brakes" in the early 90's - rim stoppers like no other that would stop you immediately upon a gentle lever pull.

So, again, where's the real innovation and evolution in the last quarter of a century? Small changes have been made, but nothing that could be classed as either of these.

What is real "innovation"?

I'd suggest Hyperglide shifting from 1989 is probably one - still used today? Yes. Changed the way we could change gears under full load? Yes. Been bettered since? No.

I'd suggest M730 series indexed shifters from 1989 is probably another - still used today? Yes. Why? Because they work, work brilliantly, work under load, shift extraordinarily reliably and are low weight. Even if you destroy your rear mech, they'll still get you home in friction mode. They even transform shifting in older 7 speed freewheels into near hyperglide performance - overall, superb design and function.

 

[rjsdavis]

Wow, that was pretty harsh and very condescending of you. Take a deep breath if you get that wound up what I write about some old bikes. Also pretty low of you to point out my grammatical errors. May I also suggest that you take a step down from your high horse.

Of course - might I remind you of your tone?

Put down your rose tinted spectacles and be open about it.

.... The end. It`s not even worth debating really.

If you don't like receiving it back in spades, probably best not to dish it out in the first place.

 

[Neil]

Not that either bandwagon is normally too slow for me... I'm a bit ambivalent to it all, but I have to ask, what the fvck is so rubbish about indexed thumbies?

Must be just my mediocre skills, but modern ones are a lot easier to shift quickly.

There's a difference, though.

And I can't be the only one to spot that the plane has just crashed into the side of the fecking mountain... there's a difference between something being considered better, equating to everything else being rubbish.

Surely.

Isn't there?

Wasn't there?

Maaaarrrrrvveeeellllouuus.

 

[The History Man]

Do you mind, I'm trying to sleep.