useless new bikes

when I worked in Halfords BITD we had more people coming in for the £99.99 Apollo than anything else. I usually managed to talk them up a little, to at least get canti brakes etc so they had a chance of lasting more than 1 ride. The calliper ones were shocking and we had to bend them to make them work in our PDIs, and it didn't take any strength to do this.

Most people don't care, they want a bike to ride to the shops, and tell their mates it's an MTB, the fact it would fall apart just at the thought of mud doesn't come into their thinking. Look at ebay, how many people have great bikes, and put them up for 99p starting price, and don't even put the model, let alone the bling it's dripping in?

We are the select few that get it, that love our bikes as much as we like riding them. We use them for what they were built for, and need the equipment that will take it, and even then we brake them sometimes. Unfortunately / fortunately most people don't, which is why we can pick up deals, but also why the good stuff is so expensive when new. If everyone got it, more would buy, and the price would come down.

Back in the day, the best bikes were £2-3000, now you need to spend that to get something half decent. Why? I don't know, think modern bikes are way overpriced, especially when you can buy a retro for a fraction of the price, and it be higher specked, and outperform the modern price equivalent
 
Pyro Tim":1n6xwt03 said:
when I worked in Halfords BITD we had more people coming in for the £99.99 Apollo than anything else. I usually managed to talk them up a little, to at least get canti brakes etc so they had a chance of lasting more than 1 ride. The calliper ones were shocking and we had to bend them to make them work in our PDIs, and it didn't take any strength to do this.

Most people don't care, they want a bike to ride to the shops, and tell their mates it's an MTB, the fact it would fall apart just at the thought of mud doesn't come into their thinking. Look at ebay, how many people have great bikes, and put them up for 99p starting price, and don't even put the model, let alone the bling it's dripping in?

We are the select few that get it, that love our bikes as much as we like riding them. We use them for what they were built for, and need the equipment that will take it, and even then we brake them sometimes. Unfortunately / fortunately most people don't, which is why we can pick up deals, but also why the good stuff is so expensive when new. If everyone got it, more would buy, and the price would come down.

Back in the day, the best bikes were £2-3000, now you need to spend that to get something half decent. Why? I don't know, think modern bikes are way overpriced, especially when you can buy a retro for a fraction of the price, and it be higher specked, and outperform the modern price equivalent
amen brother
 
Pyro Tim":3pprhtrw said:
Back in the day, the best bikes were £2-3000, now you need to spend that to get something half decent. Why? I don't know, think modern bikes are way overpriced, especially when you can buy a retro for a fraction of the price, and it be higher specked, and outperform the modern price equivalent
Inflation. £1000 in 1990 was nearly like £2000 nowadays. In £2000-£3000 range you can get pretty high specced out machine or my standards with carbon XT equipped bike are low. Bikes above 3k are for serious sponsored racers, snobs or fat bankers IMHO.
 
beagle":k3bjtxbv said:
Charlieboy28":k3bjtxbv said:
Saracen are at least trying to stop the rot and are producing some seriously high end bikes like this beauty for £4899.

Saracen is Madison now, so same folk that do Genesis and Ridgeback.

I can't think of any 90s brand that's still what was. stewlewis hit the nail on the head, almost every brand has changed hands, often bought by companies aren't even primarily bicycle makers. Look at Dorel Industries for instance, even the higher end brands they own (Cannondale, GT) are shadows of their former selves.


I'd say Orange still follow the same path, but then I would say that. How about Marin as well?
 
MTB is now a very small niche market. Most people just buy a bicycle for getting from A to B with perhaps an eye on comfort and fitness.
 
Its not about the bike its about the fun of riding, who needs carbon, suspension etc.

I am going to buy a steel rigid singlespeed 29er because I am a free thinker!
 
Back in the day, the best bikes were £2-3000, now you need to spend that to get something half decent.

Are you telling me you can not get a bike that's 90% as light as a pro rider's, that will not break, and will get you from A to B, for less than that? I am talking about a bike you would use for all occasions, not some ride-down-a-cliff carbon/titanium trials motorbike without an engine.

Come on! :D You can get a good car for that! It's like saying all cars other than Ferraris are crap. I've never paid more than a grand for a bike - and even after riding 3 grands worth of someone else's, there's not much in it unless you get the scales out. The odd gramme won't matter if your livelihood doesn't depend on it. The 3K bike also requires a crapload of maintenance on exotic shocks etc. Sack that. I just want to ride, not spanner all day.

If you are not riding bikes for a living, I will stick my neck out and say most of these sell to people who will pull them down off the top of their shiny new 4x4 because it makes them feel good. I guess it's basic human psychology? "What you got? 20 year old rusty Apollo? Well, check this out son - yeah... £12k!!!" I mean, who wouldn't love a Lambo if you could afford it? Who cares if you're not a pro F1 driver? It just so happens that here, we are a forum of people who appreciate the buzz of a good bike over a piece of s**t BSO.

The people you see on these £99 Tesco specials may have, I dunno, an 8 grand guitar or aquarium or training-shoe collection. Whatever floats your boat. I bet they lament the proliferation of goldfish in plastic bags etc... They just don't have a fetish for bikes.

I would argue that the quality per £ of bikes now is actually better than it was back in the day. Most name-brand frames are manufactured overseas by a handful of factories (in Taiwan, usually). They may be stickered and assembled outside of the far east, but for high-volume brands, it's almost financial suicide to pay western labour rates for manufacture.

Ultimately the price of the final product depends on drivetrain and perceived brand value. I've got 2 Taiwanese bikes on the Ride-to-Work and the build quality is great, you'd have paid 3 grand 20 years ago for this level of kit.
 
J i m s t e r":ycmw2i5u said:
Back in the day, the best bikes were £2-3000, now you need to spend that to get something half decent.

Are you telling me you can not get a bike that's 90% as light as a pro rider's, that will not break, and will get you from A to B, for less than that? I am talking about a bike you would use for all occasions, not some ride-down-a-cliff carbon/titanium trials motorbike without an engine.

Come on! :D You can get a good car for that! It's like saying all cars other than Ferraris are crap. I've never paid more than a grand for a bike - and even after riding 3 grands worth of someone else's, there's not much in it unless you get the scales out. The odd gramme won't matter if your livelihood doesn't depend on it. The 3K bike also requires a crapload of maintenance on exotic shocks etc. Sack that. I just want to ride, not spanner all day.

If you are not riding bikes for a living, I will stick my neck out and say most of these sell to people who will pull them down off the top of their shiny new 4x4 because it makes them feel good. I guess it's basic human psychology? "What you got? 20 year old rusty Apollo? Well, check this out son - yeah... £12k!!!" I mean, who wouldn't love a Lambo if you could afford it? Who cares if you're not a pro F1 driver? It just so happens that here, we are a forum of people who appreciate the buzz of a good bike over a piece of s**t BSO.

The people you see on these £99 Tesco specials may have, I dunno, an 8 grand guitar or aquarium or training-shoe collection. Whatever floats your boat. I bet they lament the proliferation of goldfish in plastic bags etc... They just don't have a fetish for bikes.

I would argue that the quality per £ of bikes now is actually better than it was back in the day. Most name-brand frames are manufactured overseas by a handful of factories (in Taiwan, usually). They may be stickered and assembled outside of the far east, but for high-volume brands, it's almost financial suicide to pay western labour rates for manufacture.

Ultimately the price of the final product depends on drivetrain and perceived brand value. I've got 2 Taiwanese bikes on the Ride-to-Work and the build quality is great, you'd have paid 3 grand 20 years ago for this level of kit.

Didn't spend it back in the day wouldn't now. Just my point that now they are silly money, and yes, they are made on huge scale, and the price isn't justified. Inflation hasn't doubled the price in the past 20 years, nor our paypackets, apart from the increased rate due to experience and promotion
 
According to financial websites inflation seems to be nearly doubled from 1990, however there was a big jump in inflation between 90 and 92. So not in round 20 years and you're completely right, wages not raised same way unfortunately. Nevermind, back on topic, I agree even high end expensive bikes are mass produced and all carbon or alu frames are boring and pretty much same to me. There's more focus on high-tech rather than craft skills these days with some little exceptions. That's why I appreciate retro so much. No way retro could perform as well as modern steed in general. This doesn't bother me as long as I don't race just want to have fun.
 
NeilM":3pv2hx53 said:
lowe1677":3pv2hx53 said:
Why now do so many bike makers like saracen,muddy fox diamond back etc etc make absolute c**p bikes with c**p components? what happened?

Because a certain part of the market want an mtb for £99.99, and because they know nothing about bikes and it has a brand name on it, they are happy to buy it.

^^^this

And it's more than just a certain part of the market, IMO its most of it!
When I worked in my lbs in 92 which refused to stock anything under £400 due to quality control they had a lot of customers walk out after reading price tags as a result.
Today if I spend more than 10 minutes in my (different shop) lbs I get very depressed at the number of new bike buyers who want something cheaper than the very poor looking £180 bottom of the range offering.
Everyone wants something for nothing these days.
 
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