Those ****** at VAG!
- Thread starter legrandefromage
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U.S. of course
I was watching a U.S. news channel last night and it said when tested, the diesel models they used were 40 times higher than the permitted legal amount
I doubt vag are the only company doing this and suspect many of the american companies saw how vag dodged the epa bullet so were doing it too. The mention of the ecu adapting modes to meet requirements is well known within the car and motorcycle industry and is nothing new.
As far as the U.S. is concerned, I suspect like most of Europe, if they pulled actual new cars off the forecourt then tested them, then they would find very few meet the claimed mpg or environmental figures.
U.S. of course
I was watching a U.S. news channel last night and it said when tested, the diesel models they used were 40 times higher than the permitted legal amount
I doubt vag are the only company doing this and suspect many of the american companies saw how vag dodged the epa bullet so were doing it too. The mention of the ecu adapting modes to meet requirements is well known within the car and motorcycle industry and is nothing new.
As far as the U.S. is concerned, I suspect like most of Europe, if they pulled actual new cars off the forecourt then tested them, then they would find very few meet the claimed mpg or environmental figures.
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Heres one confirmed by two independent owners today - both have Seat Leon FR diesels - neither will rev above 3000rpm at idle for the MOT smoke test. Make of that what you want.
I could point and laugh but I won't.
Smoke test target RPM is 2500.
3000 rpm limit in neutral is to prevent clutch and engine damage, many modern cars have this or similar features.
And compared to the failed in use test in the US, the MOT emissions testing is positively prehistoric.
Smoke test target RPM is 2500.
3000 rpm limit in neutral is to prevent clutch and engine damage, many modern cars have this or similar features.
And compared to the failed in use test in the US, the MOT emissions testing is positively prehistoric.
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You can point and laugh if that makes you feel better - just an observation thats all.
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Not really, neither of those owners knew why and if you read the tweets from the BBC news article, not many others know much about why their car does what either.
I'll stick it in the 'first world' problems list of things to worry about.
*in fact - thank you for the info, not many would be bothered about stating the whys and wherefores and I will put their minds at ease so they dont fret over some sort of recall notice that makes them pay for a higher emissions bracket.
Heres one I did earlier today: Astra 'geartronic' semi-auto. Car refused to start because the box was stuck in 4th. Disconnected the battery and still nothing. No diagnostics either, no error codes stored or current. Nothing in the hand book.
The cure? Smacked the lever into N to clear 11 years of cack, something that no diagnostics would be able to do at a main dealer apart from charge £60 +VAT for the pleasure of not being able to tell anything. ECu was then able to tell what the box was up to and the car now starts every time.
Mitsubishi L200 owners with water corrosion in the heads - engine is pretty much scrap and all are being replaced at Mitsubishi's expense. local dealer reckons on every dealer in the UK having at least three in currently for new engines.
Ssanyong - their smaller diesel has a press fit bearing that will suddenly decide to allow oil through and is non servicable even by ssangyong - another new engine at their expense.
Its not easy trying not to be cynical about the whole industry - ok the above are forking out at their expense but there have been plenty of times when they wont. The Audi FSI engines using way too much oil - USA: its fixed free (ish) UK: you gotta pay. Fiat 500 twin air needs a software 'upgrade' so it can get up hill. Sludging PSA diesels in Fords, dry joints in Ford dashboards, immobilizers 'forgetting' keys.
Its too much, I feel we're just guinea pigs. I'll never buy a brand new car unless I'm really rich and stupid rather than just a bit skint and stupid.
I'll stick it in the 'first world' problems list of things to worry about.
*in fact - thank you for the info, not many would be bothered about stating the whys and wherefores and I will put their minds at ease so they dont fret over some sort of recall notice that makes them pay for a higher emissions bracket.
Heres one I did earlier today: Astra 'geartronic' semi-auto. Car refused to start because the box was stuck in 4th. Disconnected the battery and still nothing. No diagnostics either, no error codes stored or current. Nothing in the hand book.
The cure? Smacked the lever into N to clear 11 years of cack, something that no diagnostics would be able to do at a main dealer apart from charge £60 +VAT for the pleasure of not being able to tell anything. ECu was then able to tell what the box was up to and the car now starts every time.
Mitsubishi L200 owners with water corrosion in the heads - engine is pretty much scrap and all are being replaced at Mitsubishi's expense. local dealer reckons on every dealer in the UK having at least three in currently for new engines.
Ssanyong - their smaller diesel has a press fit bearing that will suddenly decide to allow oil through and is non servicable even by ssangyong - another new engine at their expense.
Its not easy trying not to be cynical about the whole industry - ok the above are forking out at their expense but there have been plenty of times when they wont. The Audi FSI engines using way too much oil - USA: its fixed free (ish) UK: you gotta pay. Fiat 500 twin air needs a software 'upgrade' so it can get up hill. Sludging PSA diesels in Fords, dry joints in Ford dashboards, immobilizers 'forgetting' keys.
Its too much, I feel we're just guinea pigs. I'll never buy a brand new car unless I'm really rich and stupid rather than just a bit skint and stupid.
syncrosfan
Senior Retro Guru
My biggest fear is coming to pass... when I first heard about the scandal in the US I was thinking: never mind this so much (it's bad but its contained on the US market) but what if all the 11 million cars they sold worldwide with the 2.0 TDI engine have the same software and the same issue? The we're FUUKKKED!
Turns out I was right :x ...
I can visualize the engine development meeting: the 2.0TDI will never pass emissions... what about Add Blue urea injection?... nah' that's too expensive (ca. 500 bucks per car x over 10million units projected sales = 5 billion in cost) too much money... we could write a software to cheat emissions, that would be cheap!... YES that's the kind of thinking we need at VAG, you sir just saved us billions!.... Ahem, what if the cheat gets discovered, would we get into more trouble than it's worth it?... Boo, shut up, why do you have to shut down our brilliant cheap fix for the engine?!... Alright then, cheating it is!... big bonus this year!
Now everybody in that meeting will get fired, but don't worry they all made their money... and I will foot a part of that bill for this screw-up!
Turns out I was right :x ...
I can visualize the engine development meeting: the 2.0TDI will never pass emissions... what about Add Blue urea injection?... nah' that's too expensive (ca. 500 bucks per car x over 10million units projected sales = 5 billion in cost) too much money... we could write a software to cheat emissions, that would be cheap!... YES that's the kind of thinking we need at VAG, you sir just saved us billions!.... Ahem, what if the cheat gets discovered, would we get into more trouble than it's worth it?... Boo, shut up, why do you have to shut down our brilliant cheap fix for the engine?!... Alright then, cheating it is!... big bonus this year!
Now everybody in that meeting will get fired, but don't worry they all made their money... and I will foot a part of that bill for this screw-up!
I used to be a fleet truck fitter for new Mercedes trucks in the U.K. and once asked my foreman what is this adblue stuff I'm fitting? He said, horse piss.
I think it will effect VAG even more when they realise their sub companies like Bentley, Audi, Seat,Skoda, Porsche, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ducati motorcycles and MAN, Scania, Neoplan and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles marques all interact with each other to keep costs down and profits up and to do that they are unlikely NOT to have shared ways to reduce costs.
I do not think for one minute VAG are the only ones doing this but I bet they are going to bare the brunt of the backlash.
I think it will effect VAG even more when they realise their sub companies like Bentley, Audi, Seat,Skoda, Porsche, Bugatti, Lamborghini, Ducati motorcycles and MAN, Scania, Neoplan and Volkswagen Commercial Vehicles marques all interact with each other to keep costs down and profits up and to do that they are unlikely NOT to have shared ways to reduce costs.
I do not think for one minute VAG are the only ones doing this but I bet they are going to bare the brunt of the backlash.
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