the unofficially cool MTB drop bar thread

[frkl]

Actually it does make some sense as it keeps the bar end shifters out of the way in lower gears, when you are more likely to be out of the saddle. It saves banging your knees on them.
I tried it years ago, but the rapid rise idea is fundamentally flawed in my view - once the spring (which is all that holds it in a lower gear) weakens, it tends to upshift under load.

Honest question because i have luckily never had a derailleur spring fail--if a high normal derailleur spring fails, which way does it shift? On the one hand, the derailleur cage would be pulled down, so in the low direction, but the chain would want to fall down too, in the high direction. I guess the chain is under load, but i could see this pulling it low or high depending on the chain line. The cage of course exerts a tension...

I guess the big diff is that if the chain tends to fall high (as strange as it sounds), the cable could pull the derailleur low. But this is only an advantage if the chain reliably falls high.

 

[hamster]

The problem on the rapid-rise ones is that they start jumping up a gear under load when the spring weakens. I agree that a failed spring is almost unknown.
High normal mechs get sluggish on the upshift with a weak spring (I have an M735 that needs clean cables to go into top gear, and even then can be a bit slow). However they hold lower gears due to the tension in the shift cable.

 

[frkl]

The problem on the rapid-rise ones is that they start jumping up a gear under load when the spring weakens. I agree that a failed spring is almost unknown.
High normal mechs get sluggish on the upshift with a weak spring (I have an M735 that needs clean cables to go into top gear, and even then can be a bit slow). However they hold lower gears due to the tension in the shift cable.

Let me take a wild guess that the spring is completely non standard, long since unavailable from shimano, and incredibly difficult to replicate...

 

[frkl]

Affectionately known as hightower.... police academy style tall and a loose cannon (12 1/4" BB height! ) Hasn't had me off yet.....sure it will!
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Now this Tequesta ain't gravel it ain't MTB it ain't ATB .....it's A 2 B as the crow flies by any means necessary!
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Lots more to do like finish the camper conversion.... A telescopic boom from seat post that means I can pitch a shelter in seconds it's all very ingenious this little puppy. If I can get my fitness back on track this build is for a crack at the TCR!

Did you make that shifter/battery pack assembly yourself? Props if so.

 

[Mickeyspinn]

Yeah like a lot of things it wasn't Shimano's invention...

This is one of those things that if the low normal had gained adoption first, and then Shimano came up with the "rapid-fall" high normal, people would probably complain about high-normal. Theoretically, I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both.

It's maybe similar to conventions about which hand, right or left, controls the brake on which wheel. I could make an argument that since most people are right handed, you want the stronger hand powering weaker brake, or you could say the right hand

Did you make that shifter/battery pack assembly yourself? Props if so.

Sure did! Cabling that lot was a mare it's kinda busy that bar

 

[dirttorpedo]

Actually it does make some sense as it keeps the bar end shifters out of the way in lower gears, when you are more likely to be out of the saddle. It saves banging your knees on them.
I tried it years ago, but the rapid rise idea is fundamentally flawed in my view - once the spring (which is all that holds it in a lower gear) weakens, it tends to upshift under load.

Interesting. I've been toying with the idea of trying a rapid rise after hearing what GP of Rivendell says about the design (apparently he's designing one for production).

I've never noticed the springs weakening in my high normal vintage mechs. Why do you think this is an issue with low normal vintage mechs?

 

[frkl]

Interesting. I've been toying with the idea of trying a rapid rise after hearing what GP of Rivendell says about the design (apparently he's designing one for production).

I've never noticed the springs weakening in my high normal vintage mechs. Why do you think this is an issue with low normal vintage mechs?

That was funny, what Grant did. He wrote a blog post about the nexave rd, which is basically a steel version of the 951, from what i can tell, calling it the world's best ever derailleur, and single handedly caused a spike in the rapid rise prices world wide. I was looking at some nexave rds from an uk ebay seller at the time, and then the next day they were gone...

People kind of blindly follow Grant. He had a big influence on me as a young rider--my first real bike was a gp designed RBT, so basically the kind of bike I have been pursuing since then--a do everything, trail capable, roadish bike. But i can't jump on the riv shabby chic ideology that sees 3000 usd frames, nitto heat treated everything, heavy nexave rds made rare and expensive by the gp world wide NOS buy up, and wrapping it all in twine and mismatched cotton tape as a unified aesthetic.

Whatever. When i met him, he was actually a soft-spoken nice guy in person. He has a lot of good ideas that I like, but his writing comes off way more dogmatic than he himself does in person. He seemed shy actually.

 

[frkl]

Sure did! Cabling that lot was a mare it's kinda busy that bar

There is a serious amount of ingenuity and fab skills in this forum.

There is a small cottage industry for this sort of thing. In Germany, where everyone loves their Rohloffs, figuring out how to use their twist shifters on drops is a constant topic of discussion.

Applause.

(As a side project, I'm thinking about making a set of Gevenalle like brake/shifters. They are, after all, just Tektro levers with Microshift shifters. It can't be too hard....)

 

[Mickeyspinn]

There is a serious amount of ingenuity and fab skills in this forum.

There is a small cottage industry for this sort of thing. In Germany, where everyone loves their Rohloffs, figuring out how to use their twist shifters on drops is a constant topic of discussion.

Applause.

(As a side project, I'm thinking about making a set of Gevenalle like brake/shifters. They are, after all, just Tektro levers with Microshift shifters. It can't be too hard....)

I just give things a go.... When it all goes wrong then I've learnt somrthing....like how not to do it......and then I start all over again ! Eventually I get there,it's actually quite amazing what you can do with fairly basic tools perseverance and sheer bloody mindedness
Funnily enough it's like riding a bike....you just keep pushin!!

Have a stab at the shifters glass of wine steadies the hand and mind

 

[dirttorpedo]

That was funny, what Grant did. He wrote a blog post about the nexave rd, which is basically a steel version of the 951, from what i can tell, calling it the world's best ever derailleur, and single handedly caused a spike in the rapid rise prices world wide. I was looking at some nexave rds from an uk ebay seller at the time, and then the next day they were gone...

People kind of blindly follow Grant. He had a big influence on me as a young rider--my first real bike was a gp designed RBT, so basically the kind of bike I have been pursuing since then--a do everything, trail capable, roadish bike. But i can't jump on the riv shabby chic ideology that sees 3000 usd frames, nitto heat treated everything, heavy nexave rds made rare and expensive by the gp world wide NOS buy up, and wrapping it all in twine and mismatched cotton tape as a unified aesthetic.

Whatever. When i met him, he was actually a soft-spoken nice guy in person. He has a lot of good ideas that I like, but his writing comes off way more dogmatic than he himself does in person. He seemed shy actually.

Ha. Ya, I'm currently wrapping bars in cotton tape, finishing with twine and champagne corks and mixing shellac for the finishing touch.

I was majorly influenced by Bridgestone bikes BITD and like some of the BOBish things that Grant and Rivendell have been promoting over the years. He was definitely way ahead of the curve on the whole gravel thing. I also like the aesthetic of lugs and steel hence why I'm here. His writing definitely sounds very dogmatic and I was pleasantly surprised to hear him in Russ' recent interview on the PLP vlog. Too bad I didn't buy a used low normal derailleur before the run on them started.