The death or birth of retro bikes?

[Duxuk]

I have a 30 year old Vespa scooter. There's some analogy between the scooter and MTB scenes. The prices of classic 2 stroke scooters have fallen over the past 10 years. One reason is that younger riders are not coming into the scene. Another is that existing riders are getting too old to ride and passing away. I attend a good few funerals every year, sadly.
On a brighter note the classic motorcycle scene shows no such signs of decline. Also the top end scooters are holding prices which are more in real terms than their cost when new!
There'll always be retro bikes but I imagine the interest will be less when riders don't remember the bikes from the magazines when they were young.

 

[KondratievsBike]

For me it’s just about getting and riding the things I liked but couldn’t afford or borrow when I was in my teens or a student or low paid or a dad

I used to obsess over the ads in Bicycle Action and then MBUK then started with a Shogun Trailbreaker III when I did six post dated cheques to a shop in Leeds as a student. Had a custom version of a Dave Yates Diablo made for me when I graduated and decided to be a bike mechanic instead of getting “a proper job”. Now I seem to just buy random (mainly British) stuff with little or no planning or strategy and be woefully short on the time to sort them :facepalm:

Maybe if everybody else suddenly gives up and the prices crash and I’ve finished all the mountains of junk in my garage (probably never going to happen) I’ll find a cheap white pink and green Klein Attitude or a Shogun Prairie Breaker or a Nigel Dean in 531 Magnum with Mavic bits or a Breezer in my short arsed size (my brother rode a 20 inch so that was no use) but it will always be fun and I will always lose money but it’s a kind of nostalgia therapy and no more expensive than actual therapy

My first ride on a Zinn last year was a fabulous feeling and I’ve yet to try a set of Mag21s or RC35s But it’s all about making the teenaged bike shop stalker smile.

Thanks for this site and thanks everyone for your contributions!

 

[Rank_21]

Re:

This can be said for whole lot of retro "stuff". I used to sell older video games. Think it was Atari games that used to fetch some money but now they sell for the most part pennies. Anyone that is interested can just download emulators. There is a ton of things people collected in the past that will no doubt lose value over time such as stamps (Printed labels now) bottle caps calculators :roll: .
Bikes, however have at least a functional use and people still use very old bikes from the 30's. I also disagree that the newer generation use bikes less, it's the opposite where I live due to transportation cost's and pollution. Most of the quality and unique bikes will likely gain interest for some time. Especially bike brands still in existance. I grew up in the 90's and prefer the older ATB's from the 80's for which I have no recollection of.

 

[Bimly]

I agree, for me it's the love of riding. I have modern bikes too, but they dont make me feel like I'm 17 again!,

As for the "market" in parts, wow! That's a mess at the moment. I'm not a dealer, but I buy and sell as I find / need stuff. Its hobby pin money. But some of those guys are really distorting the market. £50 for a set of xt thumbies......let's get real. Adverts sit for ages; but what is does do is make everybody think " oh that's what's mines worth too".

That's really not going to help "survivor" bikes, ad the first thing to do is break them up for sale, making the, even less original.

 

[brocklanders023]

Re:

I've said it before many times but retro bikes are following the same path as retro Tamiya R/C did 10 to 15 years ago. The Tamiya cycle was over a much shorter period but has ended up with the price (and availability) of rough or lower end stuff dropping right back but the mint, desirable kit staying at unobtainium levels.

Supply, demand and interest isn't it? As the hobby becomes popular people clear out the old bike from the garage as someone told them it's worth a few quid. Market gets flooded, raising interest and participation. Eventually most of the hidden gems have been unearthed so not so many hit the market which in turn means interest from the casual observer drops back. In the end availability becomes very limited and most of the decent bikes have been bought, refreshed and restored. These bikes then stay in the hands of the committed collectors and not many newbies stumble across a childhood memory while idly surfing ebay.

Saying that, the retrobike scene has held up surprisingly well with this place seeming to maintain the current level of traffic for a fair few years.

 

[Rank_21]

I agree, for me it's the love of riding. I have modern bikes too, but they dont make me feel like I'm 17 again!,

As for the "market" in parts, wow! That's a mess at the moment. I'm not a dealer, but I buy and sell as I find / need stuff. Its hobby pin money. But some of those guys are really distorting the market. £50 for a set of xt thumbies......let's get real. Adverts sit for ages; but what is does do is make everybody think " oh that's what's mines worth too".

That's really not going to help "survivor" bikes, ad the first thing to do is break them up for sale, making the, even less original.

Check the completed sold price's of xt M730's on ebay. They can sell for about that price. They are the groupset to have from that period. I believe people who build up touring bikes like them aswell. Agreed that they are costly considering that they are not at all rare to find. But then its supply and demand that dictates the market price.

 

[Captain Stupido]

I find it quite interesting that the "retro" collectors market and the practical market for bikes (especially in urban centres like London) are often at odds. Although some retro MTBs are obviously valuable to collectors, many are considered almost worthless to collectors, and fetch more money to "normal" people as a practical retro commuter (on e.g. gumtree) than they would on here.

IMO, if anything it's fashion among retro-conscious commuters that is driving the market. Current fashion tends to favour "vintage" road bikes over MTBs (or ATBs) - but this has not always been the case - and it's very possible that old school MTBs will become just as fashionable in future as vintage road racers are now. That's likely to push all retro MTB values up, and I reckon it's coming.

While the "retro" collectors scene tends to focus on the high-end and rare, there are plenty of great looking retro MTBs which make practical two wheeled transport and cost less than £100 - and towards the bottom of the market your money buys you a much better retro MTB (or hybrid) than it does a retro racer.

At the top of the market, even the crazy priced and mega rare retro stuff is cheap compared to modern high end (or even upper mid range) bikes.

As an aside, in future I can also see lots of older mid-range MTBs making a great platform for rugged e-bike conversions. I know it's not what retrobikers are into - but it could affect demand and hence values. I think e-bikes are going to get hugely popular, and I'm sure that there will be growing interest in custom builds too.

Personally, I love old bikes in almost all flavours, and like LGF I've been having fun fixing up, riding, and restoring them since my early teens. For me they're made to be ridden and to be honest I'm not really interested in the collectors side of things. If I see a neglected bike I want to fix it so someone can use it as transport - not hang it on a wall. Riding round on a cheap old bikes is where it's at for me. Getting a bargain compared to a new bike is all part of the fun - and if that weren't the case I'd probably buy a new bike.

 

[My_Teenage_Self]

This thread is hilarious.

Anyone that thinks the 'bottom might fall out of the retro bike market' or really sees these an as investment either needs a wakeup call or is in dire straights financially. A splatter paint Kona is not a Pollock, it's a frickin bicycle.

I've spent thousands on my retros, and I rarely sell stuff. It's lost money - Gone - Never to be seen again. In a few more years none of our stuff will be worth anything, and you just have to deal with that. If you like it and can afford the asking price, buy it and cherish it. It's still cheaper than new bikes and they sure as shit aren't an investment. If you want to buy a bike and flip it for parts for a quick buck, fine, but IMO you're just exploiting others.

I really love my bikes. But they're just old bikes. If you ride them as intended, they'll wear out. Then you have a worn out old bike. If you had it for the right reasons, it would then be hung on your wall, or maybe wrapped lovingly in a blanket and stored in the wardrobe for the occasional looky-look, and become a curio.


And yes, I fully appreciate that some of these old bikes can be considered 'Art'. The skill and creativity that has gone into creating some of these is astounding, and not lost on me. If someone wants to own a Klein because of the paintjob, that's just great! You want to admire the brazing on a Roberts? Superb! You want to gawp at the stupid design features on a (insert any one of my bikes here)? Awesome! And if someone wants to build a Yeti made of the finest unobtanium parts ever created, lovingly refinished, everything re-anodised in purple, re-painted, better than original, and never ride it, well, that may be a step to far...


If the only love you have for retrobikes is the way it makes your wallet feel, you're missing the point.

 

[sinnerman]

This thread is hilarious.

Anyone that thinks the 'bottom might fall out of the retro bike market' or really sees these an as investment either needs a wakeup call or is in dire straights financially. A splatter paint Kona is not a Pollock, it's a frickin bicycle.

I've spent thousands on my retros, and I rarely sell stuff. It's lost money - Gone - Never to be seen again. In a few more years none of our stuff will be worth anything, and you just have to deal with that. If you like it and can afford the asking price, buy it and cherish it. It's still cheaper than new bikes and they sure as shit aren't an investment. If you want to buy a bike and flip it for parts for a quick buck, fine, but IMO you're just exploiting others.

I really love my bikes. But they're just old bikes. If you ride them as intended, they'll wear out. Then you have a worn out old bike. If you had it for the right reasons, it would then be hung on your wall, or maybe wrapped lovingly in a blanket and stored in the wardrobe for the occasional looky-look, and become a curio.


And yes, I fully appreciate that some of these old bikes can be considered 'Art'. The skill and creativity that has gone into creating some of these is astounding, and not lost on me. If someone wants to own a Klein because of the paintjob, that's just great! You want to admire the brazing on a Roberts? Superb! You want to gawp at the stupid design features on a (insert any one of my bikes here)? Awesome! And if someone wants to build a Yeti made of the finest unobtanium parts ever created, lovingly refinished, everything re-anodised in purple, re-painted, better than original, and never ride it, well, that may be a step to far...


If the only love you have for retrobikes is the way it makes your wallet feel, you're missing the point.

Agreed.

BUT- saying a Splatter Kona is Not a Jackson Pollack, is blasphemy...…. :shock:

Take him away, burn him at the stake, Stone him...., Ive never heard such nonsense....

 

[My_Teenage_Self]

*load of old waffle*

Agreed.

BUT- saying a Splatter Kona is Not a Jackson Pollack, is blasphemy...…. :shock:

Take him away, burn him at the stake, Stone him...., Ive never heard such nonsense....

Bwaahahahaa!!

Okay, I'll concede that a splatter paint Kona *is* a work of art

*edit*

The valves on that Explosif don't line up with the tyre logos = not art, just a bicycle!