Should The Police Routinely Carry Guns?

[highlandsflyer]

Re: Should The Police Be Armed?

Tragic.

That was a drunk chap, unarmed by all accounts, so surely basic training would have allowed the officers in attendance to restrain him without much risk of injury.

My fear is that an officer might reach for their highest value deterrent as a matter of course.

As a teen in the States I had guns pulled on me more than a few times by the law.

I wouldn't like that way of operating to be the norm here.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Re: Re:

Its an interesting question posed at the start. 'Should the Police be armed?' What does being armed really mean. A baton is arming yourself, CS/PARVA is arming yourself, carrying anything with the intent is 'Arming yourself. The point that Ernie made was very well put and will have enlightened a few people.

For those that don't realise, have a look at the below Scottish Police Federation clip. Then, ask yourself the same question.

Those that want to be armed have to pass very stringent tests to get to become and AFO and have to regularly re-qualify. Its a hard test that is repeated regularly to ensure that those that 'carry' are the best that they can be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU0mbo5KbCw

That is all.

Absolutely man, I got the thread title all wrong. Amended. However well trained the carrying officers are it is still a sea change that has been slyly sneaked in under the radar.

 

[TGR]

Re: Should The Police Be Armed?

Again, obviously i am tired and not making much sense but -
all Police Services have SPECIALISED firearms units - they are deployed in response to a wide variety of incidents - these may incluse - a person in possession of a firearm or other lethal weapon, a kidnapping, a hijacking, etc etc Clearly these incidents are serious and may require special abilities by the officers concerned - combined with specialist training

The question posed relates to the remainder of police officers who are not routinely armed. (In Norn Iron, all police are routinely armed.) Here, all police are required to be trained and refreshed at regular intervals. The training for all officers differs from that of the specialised units. 'Normal' officers will task specialist units where circumstances dictate.

The only difference to what is happening in England and Scotland (and presumably Wales) compared to here is that the 'normal patrol officer' is not armed. For officer safety, it makes sense to me that they should be.

On a final pedantic note - it is PAVA spray and not parva which i believe is a dog illness.

Richard

 

[highlandsflyer]

OMG, they are targeting our dogs now! How underhand will these guys go?

 

[Mike Muz]

OMG, they are targeting our dogs now! How underhand will these guys go?

Only the ones that have their teeth sharpened , and are trained to fight .
So I reckon your mutt is ok HF if your avatar is anything to go by

 

[TGR]

well, this is dragging on ...

Now the thread title is wrong! Police within the UK ARE routinely armed, BUT only those officers who are trained to do so! (excepting Norn Iron)

I have to presume that the question should be - should all police be armed routinely? All police included your local community officers, CID, etc etc etc

Richard

 

[Chopper the ex Copper]

Many years ago I was stopped by ze Rozzers in Germany, and one of the nice gents had a pistol pointed.at.My legs.while the other checked my documents and inspected the car. Was a.but scary at the time, but by 'eck.did i do exactly as i was told! But I behaved, didn't get shot.

I also was stopped a while back in Mississippi by an honest to God Sheriff Justice Buford clone. Once he was established i was a harmless limey his manner changed, and he sent me on my way with a warning to be careful as the place was full of N's and Jews. Despite.being technically Jewish myself, I thanked him for his.advice.and.went on my way before my Aunt exploded. I suspect the guy was an arsehole before he was given a gun, not.because he had been given one.

 

[highlandsflyer]

Rich, please help me come up with a logical thread title.

I am beyond working out what is relevant to the debate, though it is certainly a hot topic nationally right now.

Quite interesting to note the responses on here, as we are a very mixed demographic, as far as professions go at least.

 

[TGR]

I am not sure i can help with a topic title. The crux of the issue is -
Do you want to see armed police on your streets?

You have them now, but only when tasked. You also have them permanently at airports and other places which are subject to a high level of threat - eg Downing Street.

I honestly do not see why there is an outcry - there is a big cost to arming them all and that would normally be a problem but, it seems, from what has been typed and what i have read that some members of the public 'don't like the thought/look' or their local 'bobby' being armed. The issue is that there may be a need for them being armed which you are unaware of. A firearm is effectively a piece of PPE for a police officer and should be looked at as such - nothing more and nothing less. We are really a long way past Dixon of Dock Green and Z-Cars, and to some extent the Sweeney too.

Think of your workplace and the Risk Assessments associated with it - this could be anything from safety shoes to manual handling training. Your employer is legally bound to complete assessmenst for the tasks you carry out (except in certain circumstances - like a small company). In the Police environment, these Risk Assessments MAY SAY AT SOME STAGE IN FUTURE - officers require to be armed. At this point, it will happen - regardless of public opinion. Chief Officers and the new Commissioners (possible wrong title) will justify the reasons and it will be done. My suspicion that the stealth arming is taking place is that Risk Assessments are judging that particular areas are dangerous and officers must be armed in these areas - i could be wrong on that.

My personal feeling is that if it saves one life, it is worth it.

Nuff said?

Richard

 

[lumos2000]

i could fill a couple of pages with some of the things i've seen in brazil with even the low level security being armed also. all i can ad is that the system we have in place at the moment is probably sufficient for the uk. i wouldent like to see police carrying guns here, i think we are the envy of the world in that respect.