Stick Legs":1wxtkedp said:
Neil":1wxtkedp said:
Dichotomy for me - on the one hand, do I respect a politician who had the decency / sense / survival instinct (not that I think this one policy would have instigated his downfall, mind, but as a general trait) to listen to public opinion...
Or... do I think he's too willing to sell his (/ his party's) ideas down the river, if they look to be pretty damn unpopular. There's a part of me that thinks that Maggie's intractableness (that a real word?) was kinda admirable. And Cameron didn't u-turn over the child allowance thing, so maybe it was just a case of a cheap policy they could afford to sacrifice.
There's only one way to find out.... FIGHT!
Acksherly, Harry Hill's humour has begun to grate, so I can't even say that with conviction.
Maggie U-turned more often than people realise,
Examples?
She didn't, over the Poll Tax. And she wasn't called the Iron Lady for nothing.
Bearing in mind, she was in power for quite some time, whereas Cameron has been in office less than a year.
In general, though, Thatcher was steadfast on most things - for good or bad.
Stick Legs":1wxtkedp said:
'the lady's not for turning' was part of her downfall, once that became folklore and she started toi belive her own BS.
That quote of Thatcher wasn't in relation to the Poll Tax - it was about a decade previous, and about different policy.
Stick Legs":1wxtkedp said:
The Poll tax is what did for her in the end, her own party saw that it was the wrong policy but she felt she could not back down and save face on it.
Well I think she'd had it in mind for quite some time.
I think you're right on it being a key thing for her downfall - there was already a divide in the cabinet, and she was becoming an easy target.
Thing is, though, there were actual riots against the Poll Tax - not some slight unruliness from the students ;-)
And the government of the day, and politicians in general, observed some key things from that episode - indirect taxation has stealth on it's side.
Stick Legs":1wxtkedp said:
I know that politics is tribal, and I there are Labour politicians who I really respect but I would never vote that way. Also no matter what the Tories did there are those who will never credit them. That is fine, it is life. But I do belive that despite the sometimes cringeworthy delivery that there is a ocean between the Conservative party of the 1980's and today: Just as there is a world of difference between Labour of the 1970's and the last Gov't.
Indeed.
Whatever the politics of Thatcher's time, and what people believe about how she went about it, she led through a difficult time, and if nothing else, was truly an epic leader.
As you say, here dogmatic ways and perhaps losing touch (or perhaps she never really had that much of it) with many in society meant the rest of her cabinet / party could see a sacrificial lamb.
I have to say, I think many in society, and perhaps history judge her slightly unfairly. With difficult times, came difficult policies. The problem was perhaps more about the way she went about it, and perhaps her dogmatic ways - a double-edged sword. Personally, I think the most negative aspect her era had on society (accepting that choice of words, given it's about Thatcher!) being the "me, me, me..." aspect, and money is king, thing. That, in my opinion, had a more creeping, insidious change on the mindset of many in the country.
