Retro-modern fusion gravel build madness. The new Superb!

[Imlach]

I get that but French frames must be an absolute PITA to deal with - I won't touch a Gitane, Motobecane or Peugeot over here unless its one of the later British standard ones. Here we have gobs of quality Asian steel for cheap, but you can get a well used Surly at very nice prices and they have such lovely wide stays. My other thought would be a vintage touring bike with good clearance or a late 80's hybrid.

As a certified Surly fanboy that religiously subscribe to Surlyism and alcoholism, a perfect equilibrium, I agree with you. The Surly frames are versatile, sturdy and my favourite thing about is the wide stays. My Cross Check can accommodate a 2.1, but as I'm a lard arse, I stick to 2.0's because larger might rub when I put some torque down. I love how easily a Surly can be transformed into something completely different, and it's got delicious affordable standards, no weird threads, no weird sized holes, no madness.

That said they're overpriced. The only selling point they really have is the versatility and the fact that they've got a reputation as being "bombproof", which let's face it.. Any overbuilt 4130 frame is bombproof.. Now I have experienced difference in ride quality from year to year in Surly frames, and I think they're quite compliant and flexy in the right ways - which suggests that despite the tubeset being bog standard, they know how to engineer a frame, and they don't go overboard with crazy geometries, making them super capable for just about anything. They're classic steel providers to a world that's gone nuts. And they love to talk about alcohol, which is a selling point.

And on to your point, about cheap second hand Surly frames - in Europe they're usually incredibly overpriced because they're seen as kind of exotic. I myself have spent a fortune on my 3 Surly's, and I wouldn't trade them for the world (I wouldn't be able to live it down either, the fecking audacity of a certified Surly fanboy to ditch his fix). But they're not a great budget option here. A 90's steel trekking/touring bike thingymabob would be a better candidate. Probably as solid as Surly But they won't look as cool as me carrying my Surly up a hill when my legs give in.

 

[Imlach]

All of that said, don't ye dare give up. Part of the fun is being driven to drink every time you think you've got something sorted, but your bodge did nowt and you're now scouring the barrel, not having showered for 3 weeks, drinking disinfectant from a squirty bottle.

Who said a hobby should be fun?

 

[M_Chavez]

Well, $500usd is £435GBP... About 5 times more than I paid for Frannie if memory serves me right. And here a Surly would probably be in £500-600 category. My old steel framesets to date have cost me ~ £50-£90 each before respray. £600 for a well used frameset over here would only happen if it's something collectible.

Touring bikes come with 700c wheels these days - I have a thing against 700c+fat tyres & too relaxed geometry/huge wheelbase. Been there, tried that and I'm not going back to it.
Some touring bikes come with 26" wheels - Thorn comes to mind - and that's probably a more sensible solution, but they don't come cheap and are quite rare, even here. 26" gravel tyres availability can be a bit thin.

The French thing is a challenge, a journey and a conversation piece at the next gravel event (assuming them plastic-riding rapha-clad gravellers will get enough time to look at my frameset as I overtake them )

 

[Imlach]

To give you guys an idea, I bought my Surly KM as a full bike for 500 GBP and we'll not talk about the import charges. Ever.

 

[Imlach]

The French thing is a challenge, a journey and a conversation piece at the next gravel event (assuming them plastic-riding rapha-clad gravellers will get enough time to look at my frameset as I overtake them )

'Are you mad?'

Conversation over.

 

[M_Chavez]

@Woz - so, 28mm outer, is 26mm inner at 1mm wall thickness.
Pretty sure it's 28, but will measure thicker because of the powdercoat layers.
I guess reaming a section out to 26.4 won't make the seat tube crack (and if it does, I already know how to bodge a repair)
Thank you.
Tempted to roll with a 4-cm shim though. The question is a 4cm or a 5cm- long shim.. 4cm leaves more meat inside the tube.

40mm shim is sounds very familiar - looks liek that's what might have been inside Frannie, going by the stepped reaming.

 

[Woz]

Rendez-vous at the bar. I have no idea who should buy a drink for who based on how mad we are in the mad bike world.

@Imlach is head barman and Surly fanboy.

@dirttorpedo thinks life can be simpler if we don't invite problems and buy a Surly.

@M_Chavez is a nutter. In the UK with an obsolete French bike. Living the dream and pain.

@Woz isn't much better either, but at least in France with lots of obsolete French bikes around him. Living the dream and pain.

Is there not some sort of counselling available?

 

[M_Chavez]

@dirttorpedo
In case you've missed some of my musings on "gravel" bikes - the French randonneuses were built specifically for merde roads, fat tyres, drop bars and 650B wheels. Pretty much the original "gravel" idea sans plastic, pizza cutters and 15-speed cassettes (or whatever speed count is in vogue these days). Frannie takes 2" tyres (!). And should take 42mm with some light knob + plenty of guard clearance.
The audax geometry suits me very well, so, in theory, this should be very close to a perfect gravel bike. I'd prefer it to be made from some high-class pipe like Tange champion, or Reynolds 531c, but had to settle for durifort for this experiment.

With retro, you usually have to go for 26", 700c or bodged 26"-> 650B conversion. 700c shouldn't wear anything fatter than 25-28mm, unless you're into cyclocross, in which case 33mm is just about acceptable. I believe 26" tyre availability has improved since the last time I looked at them, but it's not as good as 650B.

The cruel irony is that with all the idiosyncrasies of French standards, the bike is easier to find/bodge parts for compared to a modern frameset with yet-another-standard for every dang part.

 

[M_Chavez]

@M_Chavez is a nutter. In the UK with an obsolete French bike. Living the dream and pain.

I did put "madness" in the headline!

 

[Woz]

@M_Chavez - spot on. There is a massive irony in the bike industry, and lord knows what the French were thinking or not thinking, or if it is because of Michelin and/or Hutchinson the only global single surviving French standard is in wheel and tyre size. I'm drinking some wine right now to celebrate that.


PS: OK. So 26" MTB was a bit of a glitch from a French perspective. They must have had a FFS moment and thought the world as gone mad, had some cognac and went along with it.